4 ms·

It's sad, the station wagon has gone out of favour in the US, and the minivan has gone out of favour in Europe, all that's left in both cases are stupid crossov

by heipei 5y ago

It's sad, the station wagon has gone out of favour in the US, and the minivan has gone out of favour in Europe, all that's left in both cases are stupid crossovers and SUVs. As a European I get envious when I read about all of the available minivan models in the US, and even European brands which build family cars, but only for the US or Asian markets. I honestly think that the lack of availability of family cars is having a measurable influence on family planning in Europe.

ghaff 5y ago
Minivans still exist but have largely gone out of favor in the US as well. And, in many cases, yes they've been replaced by larger SUVs/crossovers, which are actually not as good for transporting a lot of people.
- yurishimo 5y ago
  Minivans are still hugely popular for families with more than 2 kids. They're cheap, reliable, and spacious. While you can fit 3+ car seats in a crossover/SUV, it's much easier to load/unload them in a minivan as an adult can easily maneuver around the interior of the vehicle and strap kids in quickly without contorting their body. Price is also a huge factor. Minivans max out around $50-60k with all the bells and whistles. It's not uncommon for a smaller SUV or crossover to reach that amount, and larger SUVs can easily approach $70-80k, with luxury brands even crossing into six figure territory. I just went to Honda's website, and a 2022 Odyssey with all of the extra features is $50k. A Toyota SEQUOIA starts at $50,400. For comparison within the same brand, Toyota's minivan maxes out around $53k with Honda providing much more similarly priced Crossovers/SUVs at around $50k as well. The SEQUOIA SUV maxes out right at $70k.
  - handrous 5y ago
    Underrated feature of minivans that are standard there but occur on very few other vehicles: sliding rear doors. Your kids can't hit the car next to you in the parking lot, with a sliding door, but can still get out on their own.
- toast0 5y ago
  Minivans may be largely out of favor in the US, but they're still readily available. Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, and KIA sell minivans, Ford also sells whatever a transit express is (feels not as long as a minivan, but also more comercial); and then you've got the larger vans (transit, sprinter) but I think those are originally designed and available in Europe. They're available in luxury models or economy models, and lots of stuff in between, so a pretty wide variety to chose from, even if many people don't.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    They absolutely still exist. But there are fewer models than there used to be and it looks like sales are almost half off their peak. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/06/07/minivan-sales-plunge-suv/1337426001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/06/07/minivan...
twobitshifter 5y ago
For a passenger, the minivan is great. Whenever I get an Uber with a minivan I’m thrilled. They are also super functional - if you want to carry something you can often remove the rear seats completely and have as much room as a pickup bed.
- ghaff 5y ago
  A number of my whitewater paddling friends really like minivans. They can carry a lot of gear and you can squeeze people in for a car shuttle. It does seem in many cases, that people have traded a minivan for a 3-row SUV which aren't as good for carrying a bunch of people--or, in many cases, a lot of gear.
- D13Fd 5y ago
  Minivans are ridiculously practical and I love it. I think a better article would be "bring back the mini van." They are inexpensive (especially used), they comfortably fit lots of people, they are fun to drive, and if you take the seats out and they are incredible stuff haulers. All of that said, I've never been able to fully convince my wife that we should get a minivan, due to all of the negative stereotypes. All I get is "No. I'm not a soccer mom." And then we buy a ridiculous $50k Ascent...
  - souprock 5y ago
    I bought a $40k Ascent with 8 seats. It's decent. I'm not a fan of the driver assist nonsense. That stuff is dangerous. It actually yanks on the steering wheel, but of course it has no clue about the real world (no strong AI here) and obviously impedes safe control of the vehicle. Fortunately there is a way to turn that nonsense off. It probably still phones home with photos, GPS, and more. It does have decent performance, particularly on slippery surfaces. To beat the Ascent you'd probably have to pay more or give up that 8th seat.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
As an American I absolutely hate the van-formatted filth your godforsaken continent has vomited upon our automotive market. The Transit is practically made out of cardboard compared to the E-series it's replacing. The Fiat Ducato is a POS in every way but it's too cheap for fleets who only loot at initial buy-in to pass up. The Sprinter is a nightmare in terms of TCO. I didn't think anything could be worse than the Ram van it replaced but it's trying very hard. Then there's the Transit connect. Those twats bent over backward to re-use a bunch of Focus parts bin stuff and neutered a perfectly good vehicle. There's plenty of room for a real van-worthy suspension and live axle under there but nope, you're stuck with <1000lb cargo because Focus. And the City Promaster and NV200 are the same damn story with their respective brand's own drivetrain issues. Give me back my motherf*king Astro and Aerostar.
- sk5t 5y ago
  I applaud your vitriol for the Transit and its ilk. Nissan is the Chrysler of Japan and best avoided on all matters. GMC Savana, still a real van?
- OldHand2018 5y ago
  > As an American I absolutely hate the van-formatted filth your godforsaken continent has vomited upon our automotive market. Yet the Mercedes Benz Metris is the only properly-sized minivan available in the US. Unfortunately it is targeted for commercial use like airport taxis, so they sell it as RWD-only and with a plastic commercial-grade interior so it is overpriced for what you get. The best station wagon of the last 40 years was the P3 Volvo, which you should still be able to find used at reasonable prices and with reasonable mileage. The exterior design was excellent and it keeps looking better and better with age, but the real brilliance was the interior. The driver and front passenger got the absolute best seats Volvo has ever made, and the rear seat was a 40/20/40 split with the seat belts integrated - you could fold seats down for cargo purposes and you never had to deal with belts getting in the way of anything. Combined with extremely durable carpet that looked nice enough, you got a car that could take all the abuse a station wagon should be able to take, yet look and feel pretty nice (it was definitely NOT a luxury interior though).

by heipei 5y ago

ghaff 5y ago

Minivans still exist but have largely gone out of favor in the US as well. And, in many cases, yes they've been replaced by larger SUVs/crossovers, which are actually not as good for transporting a lot of people.

yurishimo 5y ago
Minivans are still hugely popular for families with more than 2 kids. They're cheap, reliable, and spacious. While you can fit 3+ car seats in a crossover/SUV, it's much easier to load/unload them in a minivan as an adult can easily maneuver around the interior of the vehicle and strap kids in quickly without contorting their body. Price is also a huge factor. Minivans max out around $50-60k with all the bells and whistles. It's not uncommon for a smaller SUV or crossover to reach that amount, and larger SUVs can easily approach $70-80k, with luxury brands even crossing into six figure territory. I just went to Honda's website, and a 2022 Odyssey with all of the extra features is $50k. A Toyota SEQUOIA starts at $50,400. For comparison within the same brand, Toyota's minivan maxes out around $53k with Honda providing much more similarly priced Crossovers/SUVs at around $50k as well. The SEQUOIA SUV maxes out right at $70k.
- handrous 5y ago
  Underrated feature of minivans that are standard there but occur on very few other vehicles: sliding rear doors. Your kids can't hit the car next to you in the parking lot, with a sliding door, but can still get out on their own.
toast0 5y ago
Minivans may be largely out of favor in the US, but they're still readily available. Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, and KIA sell minivans, Ford also sells whatever a transit express is (feels not as long as a minivan, but also more comercial); and then you've got the larger vans (transit, sprinter) but I think those are originally designed and available in Europe. They're available in luxury models or economy models, and lots of stuff in between, so a pretty wide variety to chose from, even if many people don't.
- ghaff 5y ago
  They absolutely still exist. But there are fewer models than there used to be and it looks like sales are almost half off their peak. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/06/07/minivan-sales-plunge-suv/1337426001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/06/07/minivan...

twobitshifter 5y ago

For a passenger, the minivan is great. Whenever I get an Uber with a minivan I’m thrilled. They are also super functional - if you want to carry something you can often remove the rear seats completely and have as much room as a pickup bed.

ghaff 5y ago
A number of my whitewater paddling friends really like minivans. They can carry a lot of gear and you can squeeze people in for a car shuttle. It does seem in many cases, that people have traded a minivan for a 3-row SUV which aren't as good for carrying a bunch of people--or, in many cases, a lot of gear.
D13Fd 5y ago
Minivans are ridiculously practical and I love it. I think a better article would be "bring back the mini van." They are inexpensive (especially used), they comfortably fit lots of people, they are fun to drive, and if you take the seats out and they are incredible stuff haulers. All of that said, I've never been able to fully convince my wife that we should get a minivan, due to all of the negative stereotypes. All I get is "No. I'm not a soccer mom." And then we buy a ridiculous $50k Ascent...
- souprock 5y ago
  I bought a $40k Ascent with 8 seats. It's decent. I'm not a fan of the driver assist nonsense. That stuff is dangerous. It actually yanks on the steering wheel, but of course it has no clue about the real world (no strong AI here) and obviously impedes safe control of the vehicle. Fortunately there is a way to turn that nonsense off. It probably still phones home with photos, GPS, and more. It does have decent performance, particularly on slippery surfaces. To beat the Ascent you'd probably have to pay more or give up that 8th seat.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

As an American I absolutely hate the van-formatted filth your godforsaken continent has vomited upon our automotive market. The Transit is practically made out of cardboard compared to the E-series it's replacing. The Fiat Ducato is a POS in every way but it's too cheap for fleets who only loot at initial buy-in to pass up. The Sprinter is a nightmare in terms of TCO. I didn't think anything could be worse than the Ram van it replaced but it's trying very hard. Then there's the Transit connect. Those twats bent over backward to re-use a bunch of Focus parts bin stuff and neutered a perfectly good vehicle. There's plenty of room for a real van-worthy suspension and live axle under there but nope, you're stuck with <1000lb cargo because Focus. And the City Promaster and NV200 are the same damn story with their respective brand's own drivetrain issues. Give me back my motherf*king Astro and Aerostar.

sk5t 5y ago
I applaud your vitriol for the Transit and its ilk. Nissan is the Chrysler of Japan and best avoided on all matters. GMC Savana, still a real van?
OldHand2018 5y ago
> As an American I absolutely hate the van-formatted filth your godforsaken continent has vomited upon our automotive market. Yet the Mercedes Benz Metris is the only properly-sized minivan available in the US. Unfortunately it is targeted for commercial use like airport taxis, so they sell it as RWD-only and with a plastic commercial-grade interior so it is overpriced for what you get. The best station wagon of the last 40 years was the P3 Volvo, which you should still be able to find used at reasonable prices and with reasonable mileage. The exterior design was excellent and it keeps looking better and better with age, but the real brilliance was the interior. The driver and front passenger got the absolute best seats Volvo has ever made, and the rear seat was a 40/20/40 split with the seat belts integrated - you could fold seats down for cargo purposes and you never had to deal with belts getting in the way of anything. Combined with extremely durable carpet that looked nice enough, you got a car that could take all the abuse a station wagon should be able to take, yet look and feel pretty nice (it was definitely NOT a luxury interior though).