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I’ve seen a couple other articles like this that that to “both sides” this by claiming Apple does it with AirTags. Seems pretty disingenuous, feels like compar

I’ve seen a couple other articles like this that that to “both sides” this by claiming Apple does it with AirTags. Seems pretty disingenuous, feels like comparing faxing documents to the internet…

kstrauser 5y ago
I've seen this, too. Apple: Their device: "Hi, I'm an AirTag! This is my serial number!" Your device: "hey Apple, I was at (X, Y) when I saw this serial number." Amazon: Their device: "Hi, can I send traffic through your network?" Your device: "sure, buddy!" They're so fundamentally different that I pretty much assume a bad faith argument from people who say they're similar.
- beezischillin 5y ago
  The other major difference is that you directly benefit from Find My and you can also turn it off any time you want.
  - luma 5y ago
    Playing devil's advocate here... aren't those same two things true of Sidewalk? If you purchase an Apple tag, then you benefit from other users who have this feature enabled. If you buy a device that uses Sidewalk, same situation. Both can be disabled.
    - YeBanKo 5y ago
      You can’t opt out of Sidewalk after June 9. You can opt out of Apple’s Find My network any time you want on a per device basis.
      - ThatPlayer 5y ago
        You can opt out at any time. June 9th is just when they're turning the network on.
        YeBanKo 5y ago
        Ok, I stand corrected. I interpreted as inability to opt-out after that date.
        ThatPlayer 5y ago
        The sensationalist headlines do phrase it that way.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    It's a pretty weak argument when it fits both devices. In reality both are bad, one is just very bad.
- secabeen 5y ago
  > Apple: Their device: "Hi, I'm an AirTag! This is my serial number!" Your device: "hey Apple, I was at (X, Y) when I saw this serial number." > Amazon: Their device: "Hi, can I send traffic through your network?" Your device: "sure, buddy!" I think you're mis-characterizing Amazon here. It's not "can I send traffic through your network", it's "can you pass this message to Amazon for me? Amazon will pass it on to my manufacturer." The devices in question can only talk to a specific set of Amazon servers. They can't talk to any systems other than the Sidewalk Servers.
  - bmitc 5y ago
    All of that should be qualified with “nominally”.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    Amazon describes it like this: > When Sidewalk is on, your Bridge can share a low-bandwidth connection with Sidewalk-enabled devices, like sensors and smart lights that are installed in locations around and outside your home where wifi may not be available. Amazon Sidewalk does not support high-bandwidth connections like a wifi or cellular network would, so you would still use those connections for streaming movies, posting on social media or sending email.
  - katbyte 5y ago
    sidewalk device "hey amazon i want to talk to my manufacturer" amazon: "sure thing! let me pipe you through to them" manufacturer "lets connect you to whatever we want on the internet" how is that not unfettered access to whatever the device wants via the manufacture's server?
    - secabeen 5y ago
      Because that doesn't give them any access to my internal network, which is the usual objection. If their device wants to talk to an arbitrary server on the public internet, why do I care, when it's all encapsulated in encrypted tunnels? Once the packets emerge from Amazon's server, they can't get back into my network. Yes, this is using some of my bandwidth, but it's capped at 80kbps and 500MB/month, which seems like a pretty small gift to Amazon and the device manufactuere, assuming it even hits that, which it probably won't in most circumstances.
- ec109685 5y ago
  AirTags doesn't work that way. It's more like, "hey Apple, here's an encrypted blob that includes where I'm at that you are unable to decrypt".

kstrauser 5y ago

I've seen this, too. Apple: Their device: "Hi, I'm an AirTag! This is my serial number!" Your device: "hey Apple, I was at (X, Y) when I saw this serial number." Amazon: Their device: "Hi, can I send traffic through your network?" Your device: "sure, buddy!" They're so fundamentally different that I pretty much assume a bad faith argument from people who say they're similar.

beezischillin 5y ago
The other major difference is that you directly benefit from Find My and you can also turn it off any time you want.
- luma 5y ago
  Playing devil's advocate here... aren't those same two things true of Sidewalk? If you purchase an Apple tag, then you benefit from other users who have this feature enabled. If you buy a device that uses Sidewalk, same situation. Both can be disabled.
  - YeBanKo 5y ago
    You can’t opt out of Sidewalk after June 9. You can opt out of Apple’s Find My network any time you want on a per device basis.
    - ThatPlayer 5y ago
      You can opt out at any time. June 9th is just when they're turning the network on.
      - YeBanKo 5y ago
        Ok, I stand corrected. I interpreted as inability to opt-out after that date.
        ThatPlayer 5y ago
        The sensationalist headlines do phrase it that way.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  It's a pretty weak argument when it fits both devices. In reality both are bad, one is just very bad.
secabeen 5y ago
> Apple: Their device: "Hi, I'm an AirTag! This is my serial number!" Your device: "hey Apple, I was at (X, Y) when I saw this serial number." > Amazon: Their device: "Hi, can I send traffic through your network?" Your device: "sure, buddy!" I think you're mis-characterizing Amazon here. It's not "can I send traffic through your network", it's "can you pass this message to Amazon for me? Amazon will pass it on to my manufacturer." The devices in question can only talk to a specific set of Amazon servers. They can't talk to any systems other than the Sidewalk Servers.
- bmitc 5y ago
  All of that should be qualified with “nominally”.
- kstrauser 5y ago
  Amazon describes it like this: > When Sidewalk is on, your Bridge can share a low-bandwidth connection with Sidewalk-enabled devices, like sensors and smart lights that are installed in locations around and outside your home where wifi may not be available. Amazon Sidewalk does not support high-bandwidth connections like a wifi or cellular network would, so you would still use those connections for streaming movies, posting on social media or sending email.
- katbyte 5y ago
  sidewalk device "hey amazon i want to talk to my manufacturer" amazon: "sure thing! let me pipe you through to them" manufacturer "lets connect you to whatever we want on the internet" how is that not unfettered access to whatever the device wants via the manufacture's server?
  - secabeen 5y ago
    Because that doesn't give them any access to my internal network, which is the usual objection. If their device wants to talk to an arbitrary server on the public internet, why do I care, when it's all encapsulated in encrypted tunnels? Once the packets emerge from Amazon's server, they can't get back into my network. Yes, this is using some of my bandwidth, but it's capped at 80kbps and 500MB/month, which seems like a pretty small gift to Amazon and the device manufactuere, assuming it even hits that, which it probably won't in most circumstances.
ec109685 5y ago
AirTags doesn't work that way. It's more like, "hey Apple, here's an encrypted blob that includes where I'm at that you are unable to decrypt".