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Honest question: how are those two statements boastful in your mind?

reedjosh 5y ago
Because many people read it as the following sarcastic virtue signal. "I was such an obedient shut in, and now that it's okay with the government and there's an experimental vaccine in me, I'm going back out."
- helen___keller 5y ago
  Repeating the parents question: How is your (satirical) statement boastful?
  - reedjosh 5y ago
    It's boastful among those on the pro government control side of things (so most of HN according to the downvotes). It's signaling your virtue. It's saying aren't I a good citizen for listening to the _science_. Isn't it great that I locked myself up because I care about you.
    - helen___keller 5y ago
      It sounds to me like you're reading too far into things and taking online posts too seriously. When someone posts a picture of a salad I don't suggest they're signalling their dietary virtue. When someone posts a picture of them hanging out with their friends I don't suggest they're signalling their virtue of being popular. Sometimes people post about things and it's fine to just ignore them and move on if it doesn't appeal to you.
      - reedjosh 5y ago
        Fair. I guess when your world view is so different from the norm, and your opinions are actively censored by powerful companies https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/29/facebook-whistleblower-who-exposed-vaccine-hesitan/ https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/29/facebook-whis... It's easy to fall into a trap of thinking negatively of everyone on the other side. Particularly when it's hard to even have a conversation like this one. The original statement while likely not humble bragging or what not, does at least immediately announce what side you're on. If a conservative or libertarian did the same, they'd probably be chastised.
    - whydoibother 5y ago
      You immediately assume the worst possible intent from those statements. Your cynicism casts it as some hollow statements, when most likely it was just people sharing there lives. Some might be fake, sure, bet I bet most aren’t. Try to be more compassionate of others and assume better intent.
      - reedjosh 5y ago
        > Try to be more compassionate of others and assume better intent. Again, that's a fair point and I will do so, but that's completely missing how people on my side of things are being driven to this. I can't say something like "I had covid so I'm not getting the vaccine." on Facebook without having an algorithm shadow ban my post. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/29/facebook-whistleblower-who-exposed-vaccine-hesitan/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/29/facebook-wh... I can't post my opinions here without being madly downvoted. I post legitimate evidence of the censure of my opinions and am downvoted. Youtube removes any videos critical of the Government's handling of COVID, and state governments gives beer and ice cream to people willing to take an experimental vaccine. This post will be downvoted into oblivion. When people on my side can't have a conversation with people on the other side, how are we supposed to maintain positive outlooks?
        burnished 5y ago
        Have you considered that the brazen nature of you tribalism, combined with your inability to see good in others (notice how you immediately took the worst possible interpretation to the point where I'd argue you must have invented facts) is what is leading to your feelings of social censure?
        reedjosh 5y ago
        > the brazen nature of you tribalism What tribe am I in? Am I republican? Christian? Anti-science? Anti-vax? I'm actually neither of those. What tribalism are you assuming of me? Could it be that I just have some contrarian viewpoints and have noticed those systemically squashed over the last year and a half. > ... your inability to see good in others ... is what is leading to your feelings of social censure? This idea completely washes over the very real fact that tech Cos and the Government are censoring alternative opinion.
    - AlexandrB 5y ago
      I urge you to consider the possibility that not everyone who thinks vaccinating right now is a good idea is "pro government control". They may just have different ideas than you about what their responsibilities are or about the risk/benefit tradeoffs of vaccination. In terms of whether these kinds of posts are virtue signalling or not, what wouldn't be virtue signalling in your mind? Just not saying anything? I'm not a huge social media user myself, but more extroverted people seem to enjoy posting what's happening in their lives. COVID and its various consequences certainly falls into that category.
      - reedjosh 5y ago
        > not everyone who thinks vaccinating right now is a good idea is "pro government control". Absolutely, but on a Venn diagram, it's a very large crossover. > what wouldn't be virtue signaling in your mind? Just not saying anything? These criticisms are completely valid. What I'm saying is it's easy to start seeing people as enemies when your views are actively stifled by tech Cos, downvoted into oblivion for being at all contrarian to general consensus on COVID, and the Government not only pays for vaccines, but runs lotteries for vaccinated people. I agree that reading into comments too much is a bad thing, but this is what people on the other side of things are doing--particularly since they are basically disallowed from voicing theirs.
        NoSorryCannot 5y ago
        I suspect you're choosing the parameters of this venn diagram to most efficiently reject viewpoints you disagree with without having to engage with them. It appears at least that your perception of others as being for increased government control, a property you infer about them rather than how they describe themselves, has meant you haven't had to think carefully about the merits of lockdowns, emergency FDA approval for novel vaccines, or other measures seen in the past year. They're suspicious machinations of the government therefore we can reject them out of hand, evidently.
    - ljm 5y ago
      "I just got my first haircut in 18 months." It takes a lot of thinking to get from a simple statement of fact (or relief) to what you're suggesting, which is loaded with assumptions to an incredible degree.
    - matt-attack 5y ago
      > pro government control That’s a surprising (to me) way to characterize those who were extremely cautious around COVID. Another honest question if you don’t mind: I assume you stop at red lights (a system designed, installed and run by the government). Do you self-identify as someone who stops at red lights because you’re “pro government control”? I mean stopping no doubt interferes with your rights to travel, slows down your forward progress and lastly seems to be sold as “yes it’s an inconvenience but it protects both you and your community”. It’s worth observing that gang members, murderers and the like most likely stop at red lights. Do they do it because they’re “pro-government control?” I posit not. It’s more likely they accept the inconvenience and they accept the temporary delay in their rights to travel because they’ve done the calculus of risk vs reward. Risk to both themselves and others. We all choose to stop because it’s the safest thing for everyone.
      - reedjosh 5y ago
        > I assume you stop at red lights This paints me in a somewhat negative light--in the spirit of honesty--prior to flashing left turn signals, I often didn't. Well, I probably stopped and looked both ways, but I didn't necessarily obey. I think this is completely tangential to your point though. I do try to be a good citizen to my neighbors and friends. I pick up garbage and keep my house clean. I live on a private road (not fancy, just not publicly maintained.), and I help maintain that. I try to walk faster when a car is waiting for me to cross. I do things I believe help my community, but I also break rules if I disagree with them. I would argue with my parents if I believed their reasoning was lacking, and generally if I obeyed a command of theirs even though I disagreed it was from fear of retribution. To steel man your argument, I think what you're saying is that being pro COVID vaccine isn't necessarily being pro-government control, and people are taking the vaccine purely to help others in society. I agree, there are definitely people that fall in this category. I still believe that the overwhelming majority of people that have taken the vaccine also are happy that views like mine are censored, think the government is doing a great job promoting this vaccine and do support lockdowns. It's hard for me to separate the two opinions because such a seemingly overwhelming majority of people with one of these opinions have all of them. I think taking the vaccine if you believe it is healthy and helps others is a good thing for you to do. That said I think blocking me from speaking against vaccine requirements, and or being able to discuss how the vaccine might be unhealthy https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/spike-proteins-covid-19-and-vaccines/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/spike-proteins-covid-19-and... Is atrocious and has no place in a free society. Yet, this is happening. Not only that, but I'm worried I'll be forced to be vaccinated to live a normal life, even though I have COVID antibodies. From my vantage, it's difficult to remain optimistic because of what I perceive as a governmental overreach being supported by the majority of people. I legitimately feel threatened, and that makes it hard for me to be un-biased. Edit: Just realized my link may not make sense without a bit of context. Essentially it's saying a lot of the damage done by COVID is caused by the spike protein itself. The mRNA vaccines cause your body to produce the spike protein. I'm not saying _you_ should be convinced because of this link, I'm just giving an example of why I'm skeptical.
__blockcipher__ 5y ago
My most charitable interpretation is that the ability to have avoided leaving one's house in 18 months implies a certain level of wealth (both literally in terms of money but also in terms of life situation etc) I guess it could also be viewed as implicitly bragging about getting the vaccine (if that's the reason they're "reentering society"), but that follows less directly imo
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Because many people read it as the following sarcastic virtue signal. "I was such an obedient shut in, and now that it's okay with the government and there's an experimental vaccine in me, I'm going back out."

helen___keller 5y ago
Repeating the parents question: How is your (satirical) statement boastful?
- reedjosh 5y ago
  It's boastful among those on the pro government control side of things (so most of HN according to the downvotes). It's signaling your virtue. It's saying aren't I a good citizen for listening to the _science_. Isn't it great that I locked myself up because I care about you.
  - helen___keller 5y ago
    It sounds to me like you're reading too far into things and taking online posts too seriously. When someone posts a picture of a salad I don't suggest they're signalling their dietary virtue. When someone posts a picture of them hanging out with their friends I don't suggest they're signalling their virtue of being popular. Sometimes people post about things and it's fine to just ignore them and move on if it doesn't appeal to you.
    - reedjosh 5y ago
      Fair. I guess when your world view is so different from the norm, and your opinions are actively censored by powerful companies https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/29/facebook-whistleblower-who-exposed-vaccine-hesitan/ https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/29/facebook-whis... It's easy to fall into a trap of thinking negatively of everyone on the other side. Particularly when it's hard to even have a conversation like this one. The original statement while likely not humble bragging or what not, does at least immediately announce what side you're on. If a conservative or libertarian did the same, they'd probably be chastised.
  - whydoibother 5y ago
    You immediately assume the worst possible intent from those statements. Your cynicism casts it as some hollow statements, when most likely it was just people sharing there lives. Some might be fake, sure, bet I bet most aren’t. Try to be more compassionate of others and assume better intent.
    - reedjosh 5y ago
      > Try to be more compassionate of others and assume better intent. Again, that's a fair point and I will do so, but that's completely missing how people on my side of things are being driven to this. I can't say something like "I had covid so I'm not getting the vaccine." on Facebook without having an algorithm shadow ban my post. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/29/facebook-whistleblower-who-exposed-vaccine-hesitan/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/29/facebook-wh... I can't post my opinions here without being madly downvoted. I post legitimate evidence of the censure of my opinions and am downvoted. Youtube removes any videos critical of the Government's handling of COVID, and state governments gives beer and ice cream to people willing to take an experimental vaccine. This post will be downvoted into oblivion. When people on my side can't have a conversation with people on the other side, how are we supposed to maintain positive outlooks?
      - burnished 5y ago
        Have you considered that the brazen nature of you tribalism, combined with your inability to see good in others (notice how you immediately took the worst possible interpretation to the point where I'd argue you must have invented facts) is what is leading to your feelings of social censure?
        reedjosh 5y ago
        > the brazen nature of you tribalism What tribe am I in? Am I republican? Christian? Anti-science? Anti-vax? I'm actually neither of those. What tribalism are you assuming of me? Could it be that I just have some contrarian viewpoints and have noticed those systemically squashed over the last year and a half. > ... your inability to see good in others ... is what is leading to your feelings of social censure? This idea completely washes over the very real fact that tech Cos and the Government are censoring alternative opinion.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    I urge you to consider the possibility that not everyone who thinks vaccinating right now is a good idea is "pro government control". They may just have different ideas than you about what their responsibilities are or about the risk/benefit tradeoffs of vaccination. In terms of whether these kinds of posts are virtue signalling or not, what wouldn't be virtue signalling in your mind? Just not saying anything? I'm not a huge social media user myself, but more extroverted people seem to enjoy posting what's happening in their lives. COVID and its various consequences certainly falls into that category.
    - reedjosh 5y ago
      > not everyone who thinks vaccinating right now is a good idea is "pro government control". Absolutely, but on a Venn diagram, it's a very large crossover. > what wouldn't be virtue signaling in your mind? Just not saying anything? These criticisms are completely valid. What I'm saying is it's easy to start seeing people as enemies when your views are actively stifled by tech Cos, downvoted into oblivion for being at all contrarian to general consensus on COVID, and the Government not only pays for vaccines, but runs lotteries for vaccinated people. I agree that reading into comments too much is a bad thing, but this is what people on the other side of things are doing--particularly since they are basically disallowed from voicing theirs.
      - NoSorryCannot 5y ago
        I suspect you're choosing the parameters of this venn diagram to most efficiently reject viewpoints you disagree with without having to engage with them. It appears at least that your perception of others as being for increased government control, a property you infer about them rather than how they describe themselves, has meant you haven't had to think carefully about the merits of lockdowns, emergency FDA approval for novel vaccines, or other measures seen in the past year. They're suspicious machinations of the government therefore we can reject them out of hand, evidently.
  - ljm 5y ago
    "I just got my first haircut in 18 months." It takes a lot of thinking to get from a simple statement of fact (or relief) to what you're suggesting, which is loaded with assumptions to an incredible degree.
  - matt-attack 5y ago
    > pro government control That’s a surprising (to me) way to characterize those who were extremely cautious around COVID. Another honest question if you don’t mind: I assume you stop at red lights (a system designed, installed and run by the government). Do you self-identify as someone who stops at red lights because you’re “pro government control”? I mean stopping no doubt interferes with your rights to travel, slows down your forward progress and lastly seems to be sold as “yes it’s an inconvenience but it protects both you and your community”. It’s worth observing that gang members, murderers and the like most likely stop at red lights. Do they do it because they’re “pro-government control?” I posit not. It’s more likely they accept the inconvenience and they accept the temporary delay in their rights to travel because they’ve done the calculus of risk vs reward. Risk to both themselves and others. We all choose to stop because it’s the safest thing for everyone.
    - reedjosh 5y ago
      > I assume you stop at red lights This paints me in a somewhat negative light--in the spirit of honesty--prior to flashing left turn signals, I often didn't. Well, I probably stopped and looked both ways, but I didn't necessarily obey. I think this is completely tangential to your point though. I do try to be a good citizen to my neighbors and friends. I pick up garbage and keep my house clean. I live on a private road (not fancy, just not publicly maintained.), and I help maintain that. I try to walk faster when a car is waiting for me to cross. I do things I believe help my community, but I also break rules if I disagree with them. I would argue with my parents if I believed their reasoning was lacking, and generally if I obeyed a command of theirs even though I disagreed it was from fear of retribution. To steel man your argument, I think what you're saying is that being pro COVID vaccine isn't necessarily being pro-government control, and people are taking the vaccine purely to help others in society. I agree, there are definitely people that fall in this category. I still believe that the overwhelming majority of people that have taken the vaccine also are happy that views like mine are censored, think the government is doing a great job promoting this vaccine and do support lockdowns. It's hard for me to separate the two opinions because such a seemingly overwhelming majority of people with one of these opinions have all of them. I think taking the vaccine if you believe it is healthy and helps others is a good thing for you to do. That said I think blocking me from speaking against vaccine requirements, and or being able to discuss how the vaccine might be unhealthy https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/spike-proteins-covid-19-and-vaccines/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/spike-proteins-covid-19-and... Is atrocious and has no place in a free society. Yet, this is happening. Not only that, but I'm worried I'll be forced to be vaccinated to live a normal life, even though I have COVID antibodies. From my vantage, it's difficult to remain optimistic because of what I perceive as a governmental overreach being supported by the majority of people. I legitimately feel threatened, and that makes it hard for me to be un-biased. Edit: Just realized my link may not make sense without a bit of context. Essentially it's saying a lot of the damage done by COVID is caused by the spike protein itself. The mRNA vaccines cause your body to produce the spike protein. I'm not saying _you_ should be convinced because of this link, I'm just giving an example of why I'm skeptical.

__blockcipher__ 5y ago

My most charitable interpretation is that the ability to have avoided leaving one's house in 18 months implies a certain level of wealth (both literally in terms of money but also in terms of life situation etc) I guess it could also be viewed as implicitly bragging about getting the vaccine (if that's the reason they're "reentering society"), but that follows less directly imo

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]