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This is how you get the "Making Europe shut up about it Act of 2021" that has toothless penalties and doesn't provide any funding for enforcement anyway.

by ovi256 5y ago

rsynnott 5y ago
The whole reason that this is an issue now is that previous efforts were not deemed adequate. A “we won’t fix it, but we’ll vaguely pretend to fix it” approach probably won’t fly.
- hedora 5y ago
  In this proposal, after an EU citizen finds out the US has their information (presumably due to an extradition order based on the stolen data, or perhaps a failed extrajudicial killing), they will have the right to sue the US in US court (after flying to the US to be arrested, presumably). This is thoroughly in the “vaguely pretend to fix it” bucket.
  - anticensor 5y ago
    > after flying to the US to be arrested, presumably Why?
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  I suspect that's about the best the EU will be able to manage in this situation. It's also foolish to think anything the US does, even if it were to have real teeth, would not be subject to additional requirements should the EU change their mind in the future. This is not really a situation in which the US could make the EU happy without ceding far too much sovereignty than the US is prepared to do. And of course the EU appears to be strangely silent on China in all of this, even as they adopt more Chinese backbone infrastructure which requires the use of Chinese cloud services. And I'm not hearing anything about Japan, either -- maybe they don't care about gaming servers? Who knows what they decide is important. I often see this type of pattern: We don't like some side effect of X, but we do like that X is distributed around the world so let's make the whole world comply. And the problem is that this never works. You will never make the world comply. You can push around a few small countries and kinda get the illusion that the world is complying because there are a large number of small countries to push around. So you can say "we've gotten 50 countries onboard". But that's like counting Micronesia. You haven't gotten China onboard. You haven't gotten the U.S. onboard. Or India, or Russia, or really any of the big players. So you have some tough choices about globalization with least common denominator versus national fragmentation but high standards. But people aren't willing to make these tough trade offs because they love both globalization and the high standards and they think if they just keep writing op-eds and sending written notices around to various embassies and hosting international conferences that they will be able to get the big players to change. So what follows is a policy of delusion, delay, and denial. Just like various promises that free trade would take environmental practices into effect, it is all delusion, delay, and denial until people accept that their choice is global de-coupling or giving up the high standards.

This is how you get the "Making Europe shut up about it Act of 2021" that has toothless penalties and doesn't provide any funding for enforcement anyway.

by ovi256 5y ago

This is how you get the "Making Europe shut up about it Act of 2021" that has toothless penalties and doesn't provide any funding for enforcement anyway.

rsynnott 5y ago

The whole reason that this is an issue now is that previous efforts were not deemed adequate. A “we won’t fix it, but we’ll vaguely pretend to fix it” approach probably won’t fly.

hedora 5y ago
In this proposal, after an EU citizen finds out the US has their information (presumably due to an extradition order based on the stolen data, or perhaps a failed extrajudicial killing), they will have the right to sue the US in US court (after flying to the US to be arrested, presumably). This is thoroughly in the “vaguely pretend to fix it” bucket.
- anticensor 5y ago
  > after flying to the US to be arrested, presumably Why?
rsj_hn 5y ago
I suspect that's about the best the EU will be able to manage in this situation. It's also foolish to think anything the US does, even if it were to have real teeth, would not be subject to additional requirements should the EU change their mind in the future. This is not really a situation in which the US could make the EU happy without ceding far too much sovereignty than the US is prepared to do. And of course the EU appears to be strangely silent on China in all of this, even as they adopt more Chinese backbone infrastructure which requires the use of Chinese cloud services. And I'm not hearing anything about Japan, either -- maybe they don't care about gaming servers? Who knows what they decide is important. I often see this type of pattern: We don't like some side effect of X, but we do like that X is distributed around the world so let's make the whole world comply. And the problem is that this never works. You will never make the world comply. You can push around a few small countries and kinda get the illusion that the world is complying because there are a large number of small countries to push around. So you can say "we've gotten 50 countries onboard". But that's like counting Micronesia. You haven't gotten China onboard. You haven't gotten the U.S. onboard. Or India, or Russia, or really any of the big players. So you have some tough choices about globalization with least common denominator versus national fragmentation but high standards. But people aren't willing to make these tough trade offs because they love both globalization and the high standards and they think if they just keep writing op-eds and sending written notices around to various embassies and hosting international conferences that they will be able to get the big players to change. So what follows is a policy of delusion, delay, and denial. Just like various promises that free trade would take environmental practices into effect, it is all delusion, delay, and denial until people accept that their choice is global de-coupling or giving up the high standards.