10 ms·

I saw some historian last year say, "there will be a world before covid and a world after covid", and I thought that was hyperbolic. But now I see the truth in

I saw some historian last year say, "there will be a world before covid and a world after covid", and I thought that was hyperbolic. But now I see the truth in the matter - it will not be some obvious, monumental, instantaneous change, but rather the slow, creeping change where a few years from now, we'll look back and see that society is just different. In the US, we'll see some people wear masks all the time when out in public, and others will wear them when sick or during cold/flu season. Others will remain gravely offended by masks. Masks will be a thing. Other changes I can't see yet, but they will become apparent later. Definitely work will somehow change. Maybe the "everyone back to the office" crowd will realize that is less competitive. Or the opposite, and there will be a snap back to office work. (My money is on the former). The white collar world has been through Zoom School this past year, and, as a remote worker, that benefits me tremendously, as people now understand how it works and the etiquette around it. Plus Zoom is waaay better now than it was - latency is much less, quality is way up. In the US, maybe some of the outdoor dining, the closing off of streets, will remain. Many marginal restaurants closed, some of which I'll miss greatly, but that gives a chance for new ones to open. mRNA vaccines are amazing, and I'm betting they'll impact our lives in profound ways from here on out. Lastly, I have this sense that there are a number of changes happening and that have happened that I can't quite make out, but will become obvious in retrospect and I'm curious what they are.

perardi 5y ago
Politico just had a decent piece on some of the smaller societal changes… https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/31/covid-rules-liquor-pot-telemedicine-491388 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/31/covid-rules-liquor-... …though arguably expanded telemedicine isn’t “small”.
aphextron 5y ago
>I saw some historian last year say, "there will be a world before covid and a world after covid", and I thought that was hyperbolic. But now I see the truth in the matter - it will not be some obvious, monumental, instantaneous change, but rather the slow, creeping change where a few years from now, we'll look back and see that society is just different. One thing to keep in mind is that this is nothing new. Plague has been with humanity for as long as we have existed. And yet, here we were in 2019 living our lives "normally" after dealing with those in the past. I think there will certainly be a generational cultural divide caused by this which separates us from those who were too young to remember, much like the Depression was for our grandparents. But people will go back to being people regardless.
- gilbetron 5y ago
  I agree it is nothing new, but that's the point being made, which is that plagues cause discontinuities with societies - they are a driver of change. And that will happen here, too. People will go back to being people, I agree, but just different people, in some ways :) Also, I have thought about the generational divide part, and tell me son that he'll be telling his kids and grandkids about what it was like to live through covid!
  - benjaminwootton 5y ago
    Does it count as a plague when the average age of death is greater than the average life expectancy? Maybe these long term changes were less necessary than the previous ones.
    - gilbetron 5y ago
      Over 150,000 people under the age of 65 died. It spared the young, fortunately, but that doesn't affect it's classification as a "plague".
hervature 5y ago
On the subject of masks. If it didn’t stick after the Spanish flu, what makes you think it is different this time?
- jaywalk 5y ago
  After the Spanish flu there were no Facebook groups or subreddits to engage in a circle-jerk with thousands of others around the world about how virtuous your continued mask-wearing is.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Different people and cultures - I don't think it'll stick for all but there are people who enjoy wearing masks. They like hiding behind them, or they feel safe. There are others who use them as a way to gain victim status in society - these are unique present-day phenomenon.
  - syncbehind 5y ago
    >There are others who use them as a way to gain victim status in society Can you elaborate on this?
    - ericmay 5y ago
      Sure - there are people in society who gain status by being a victim of some injustice or event. It means others will tend to give them social sympathy points, cater to their needs, and pay attention to them. In the case of masks - some will wear a mask for no scientific reason, just that they can become a victim. "Sorry I can't attend that event because it's not mask friendly." "Sorry do you think you could wear a mask when we're in a meeting together?" "Sorry I don't go to happy hours b/c of my mask" etc. It's going to be a whole subculture. There will be blogs, lifestyle magazines, you name it. "How to live your best life when others aren't masking up" - "top 10 skin friendly masks to wear" whatever. -edit- And just to make it clear I always wear a mask and follow state and CDC guidelines. I don't care about wearing one. Whatever the gov't says is what I'm going to follow. These are just personal observations.
  - 5y ago
lm28469 5y ago
> it will not be some obvious, monumental, instantaneous change, but rather the slow, creeping change where a few years from now, we'll look back and see that society is just different. Hasn't it always been like that ? History books make it look like the world radically changes step by step (printing press, the cinema, the radio cars, planes, &c.) but in reality it's always spread over decades. If you live through these historical moments it's always a gradual change, it's only when you look back at history that you can pin point events (while discarding half of the story most of the time)
- gilbetron 5y ago
  I definitely agree with your larger point, and the results of this pandemic will be of similar impact and rate of impact as other historical events. However, there are definitely moments that did have quick impact. 9/11 had immediate, significant, lasting impact to our lives, at least as far as traveling went, for instance.
benjaminwootton 5y ago
Travel will also likely fundamentally change. I suspect it will be another few years before the restrictions settle and find their level, and probably the same again before people start to relax and want to travel internationally to the same degree in the same numbers. By which time we will have structural changes in the travel and airlines industries. Sad. I preferred the old world :-(

perardi 5y ago

Politico just had a decent piece on some of the smaller societal changes… https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/31/covid-rules-liquor-pot-telemedicine-491388 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/31/covid-rules-liquor-... …though arguably expanded telemedicine isn’t “small”.

aphextron 5y ago

>I saw some historian last year say, "there will be a world before covid and a world after covid", and I thought that was hyperbolic. But now I see the truth in the matter - it will not be some obvious, monumental, instantaneous change, but rather the slow, creeping change where a few years from now, we'll look back and see that society is just different. One thing to keep in mind is that this is nothing new. Plague has been with humanity for as long as we have existed. And yet, here we were in 2019 living our lives "normally" after dealing with those in the past. I think there will certainly be a generational cultural divide caused by this which separates us from those who were too young to remember, much like the Depression was for our grandparents. But people will go back to being people regardless.

gilbetron 5y ago
I agree it is nothing new, but that's the point being made, which is that plagues cause discontinuities with societies - they are a driver of change. And that will happen here, too. People will go back to being people, I agree, but just different people, in some ways :) Also, I have thought about the generational divide part, and tell me son that he'll be telling his kids and grandkids about what it was like to live through covid!
- benjaminwootton 5y ago
  Does it count as a plague when the average age of death is greater than the average life expectancy? Maybe these long term changes were less necessary than the previous ones.
  - gilbetron 5y ago
    Over 150,000 people under the age of 65 died. It spared the young, fortunately, but that doesn't affect it's classification as a "plague".

hervature 5y ago

On the subject of masks. If it didn’t stick after the Spanish flu, what makes you think it is different this time?

jaywalk 5y ago
After the Spanish flu there were no Facebook groups or subreddits to engage in a circle-jerk with thousands of others around the world about how virtuous your continued mask-wearing is.
ericmay 5y ago
Different people and cultures - I don't think it'll stick for all but there are people who enjoy wearing masks. They like hiding behind them, or they feel safe. There are others who use them as a way to gain victim status in society - these are unique present-day phenomenon.
- syncbehind 5y ago
  >There are others who use them as a way to gain victim status in society Can you elaborate on this?
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Sure - there are people in society who gain status by being a victim of some injustice or event. It means others will tend to give them social sympathy points, cater to their needs, and pay attention to them. In the case of masks - some will wear a mask for no scientific reason, just that they can become a victim. "Sorry I can't attend that event because it's not mask friendly." "Sorry do you think you could wear a mask when we're in a meeting together?" "Sorry I don't go to happy hours b/c of my mask" etc. It's going to be a whole subculture. There will be blogs, lifestyle magazines, you name it. "How to live your best life when others aren't masking up" - "top 10 skin friendly masks to wear" whatever. -edit- And just to make it clear I always wear a mask and follow state and CDC guidelines. I don't care about wearing one. Whatever the gov't says is what I'm going to follow. These are just personal observations.
- 5y ago

lm28469 5y ago

> it will not be some obvious, monumental, instantaneous change, but rather the slow, creeping change where a few years from now, we'll look back and see that society is just different. Hasn't it always been like that ? History books make it look like the world radically changes step by step (printing press, the cinema, the radio cars, planes, &c.) but in reality it's always spread over decades. If you live through these historical moments it's always a gradual change, it's only when you look back at history that you can pin point events (while discarding half of the story most of the time)

gilbetron 5y ago
I definitely agree with your larger point, and the results of this pandemic will be of similar impact and rate of impact as other historical events. However, there are definitely moments that did have quick impact. 9/11 had immediate, significant, lasting impact to our lives, at least as far as traveling went, for instance.

benjaminwootton 5y ago

Travel will also likely fundamentally change. I suspect it will be another few years before the restrictions settle and find their level, and probably the same again before people start to relax and want to travel internationally to the same degree in the same numbers. By which time we will have structural changes in the travel and airlines industries. Sad. I preferred the old world :-(