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> I'd wager that the average American anti Covid fanatic (the sort: Masks are fascism! It's like what the nazis did with the jews!) is not really the kind of pe

> I'd wager that the average American anti Covid fanatic (the sort: Masks are fascism! It's like what the nazis did with the jews!) is not really the kind of person travelling the world. You'd be wrong. I've received more vaccines than 99.99% of the people you meet. I visit the doctor and get every jab that's recommended before every international trip (along with documentation for my prescriptions in case I'm questioned about them at a border,) but I will not receive any of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines until they are adequately tested. Adequate testing takes about a decade. I'm not really concerned about their efficacy, but anyone who tells you that their long-term safety is already established is lying to you.

RspecMAuthortah 5y ago
Not sure why you are downvoted. Health officials in US have done a phenomenal job showing how incompetent they were during this crisis. From initial downplay, then the mask fiasco, then trying to covering up the lab leak hypothesis, and of course politicizing the vaccine release timeline, they have blood on their hands. Then to say we need to blindly trust them on what they are saying on safety profile of the vaccine, its completely crazy. And through it all they never said we are sorry. I will never trust US Health Authorities anymore. Period.
- guitarbill 5y ago
  Maybe because saying "Adequate testing takes about a decade" is kinda BS - maybe in poster's opinion that's what "adequate" means. Realistically, the vaccine just has to be safer than getting Covid and it's long-term effects. Because we've seen in most Western nations that not getting Covid doesn't work in general. > I will never trust US Health Authorities anymore It's a shame some of their mistakes have eroded trust, and for what it's worth, I think easing masking requirements for vaccinated people was rash. But: > then trying to covering up the lab leak hypothesis, and of course politicizing the vaccine release timeline, they have blood on their hands. Come on. With all due respect, the lab leak hypothesis does not change the fact Covid exists now and we all have to deal with it, and I'm not even sure what "politicizing the vaccine release timeline" even means, or how a vaccine rollout better than Europe (so far) means they have blood on their hands. There is for sure some politics involved, which can be seen between the different approaches between the administrations. But that just points to factors outside health officials. So what about other countries then? Are they equally untrustworthy? And with all the vaccinations given so far, the safety profile of some vaccines (Pfizer/BioNTech) seems very good (compared to AZ, which is still not bad). At this point, data exists on the short term effects and blind trust is not necessary. On the long term, who knows? But you'd be in the same boat as millions of other people if there were wide-spread effects. If not, then it'd be like cancer or car accidents. Shit does sometimes happen, and often it's out of our control.
  - ghoward 5y ago
    If we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccines, we don't know if they are actually better than COVID and its long-term effects.
    - Pyramus 5y ago
      Don't forget Covid/SARS-Cov-2 is only 6 months older than the vaccines: Nov-2019 vs Apr-2020. Every bit of data that we have today about the safety profile of the vaccines vs Covid indicates that for the majority of people vaccines are orders of magnitude (think 100-10000x) safer than Covid. Even when they aren't, e.g. children or AZ & young women, we are talking about super small risks similar to an average car ride.
      - supertrope 5y ago
        People consider risk emotionally. A Facebook post claiming their uncle’s roommate’s sister died of a JNJ blot clot (1 in a million) gets more eyeballs than yesterday’s hundreds of COVID-19 fatalities (hundreds of times the risk!)
      - ghoward 5y ago
        No, there are data that says that the vaccines may be the same as COVID, or worse because the virus is not that dangerous for young people.
    - supertrope 5y ago
      I’m not a betting man but a one in a million chance of dying of a Jannsen shot looks good in comparison with COVID-19’s 300 per million(1). Lightning is about 0.3 million. Driving or riding a car is 100 per million. (1)Death rate much higher in hotspots after hospitals are overwhelmed.
      - ghoward 5y ago
        I'm not a betting man, but it looks like the chance of dying from the shot might actually be higher than 1 in a million. And we don't yet know how high it is, nor will we, I suspect.
- supertrope 5y ago
  There were big mistakes but attributing malice and rejecting experts is just jumping out of the pan and into the fire.

RspecMAuthortah 5y ago

Not sure why you are downvoted. Health officials in US have done a phenomenal job showing how incompetent they were during this crisis. From initial downplay, then the mask fiasco, then trying to covering up the lab leak hypothesis, and of course politicizing the vaccine release timeline, they have blood on their hands. Then to say we need to blindly trust them on what they are saying on safety profile of the vaccine, its completely crazy. And through it all they never said we are sorry. I will never trust US Health Authorities anymore. Period.

guitarbill 5y ago
Maybe because saying "Adequate testing takes about a decade" is kinda BS - maybe in poster's opinion that's what "adequate" means. Realistically, the vaccine just has to be safer than getting Covid and it's long-term effects. Because we've seen in most Western nations that not getting Covid doesn't work in general. > I will never trust US Health Authorities anymore It's a shame some of their mistakes have eroded trust, and for what it's worth, I think easing masking requirements for vaccinated people was rash. But: > then trying to covering up the lab leak hypothesis, and of course politicizing the vaccine release timeline, they have blood on their hands. Come on. With all due respect, the lab leak hypothesis does not change the fact Covid exists now and we all have to deal with it, and I'm not even sure what "politicizing the vaccine release timeline" even means, or how a vaccine rollout better than Europe (so far) means they have blood on their hands. There is for sure some politics involved, which can be seen between the different approaches between the administrations. But that just points to factors outside health officials. So what about other countries then? Are they equally untrustworthy? And with all the vaccinations given so far, the safety profile of some vaccines (Pfizer/BioNTech) seems very good (compared to AZ, which is still not bad). At this point, data exists on the short term effects and blind trust is not necessary. On the long term, who knows? But you'd be in the same boat as millions of other people if there were wide-spread effects. If not, then it'd be like cancer or car accidents. Shit does sometimes happen, and often it's out of our control.
- ghoward 5y ago
  If we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccines, we don't know if they are actually better than COVID and its long-term effects.
  - Pyramus 5y ago
    Don't forget Covid/SARS-Cov-2 is only 6 months older than the vaccines: Nov-2019 vs Apr-2020. Every bit of data that we have today about the safety profile of the vaccines vs Covid indicates that for the majority of people vaccines are orders of magnitude (think 100-10000x) safer than Covid. Even when they aren't, e.g. children or AZ & young women, we are talking about super small risks similar to an average car ride.
    - supertrope 5y ago
      People consider risk emotionally. A Facebook post claiming their uncle’s roommate’s sister died of a JNJ blot clot (1 in a million) gets more eyeballs than yesterday’s hundreds of COVID-19 fatalities (hundreds of times the risk!)
    - ghoward 5y ago
      No, there are data that says that the vaccines may be the same as COVID, or worse because the virus is not that dangerous for young people.
  - supertrope 5y ago
    I’m not a betting man but a one in a million chance of dying of a Jannsen shot looks good in comparison with COVID-19’s 300 per million(1). Lightning is about 0.3 million. Driving or riding a car is 100 per million. (1)Death rate much higher in hotspots after hospitals are overwhelmed.
    - ghoward 5y ago
      I'm not a betting man, but it looks like the chance of dying from the shot might actually be higher than 1 in a million. And we don't yet know how high it is, nor will we, I suspect.
supertrope 5y ago
There were big mistakes but attributing malice and rejecting experts is just jumping out of the pan and into the fire.