4 ms·

I know people who had 4-5 hour RT commutes in the Bay. (Tracy <-> SF) It's ludicrous, but I suppose it's a bit of a boiled frog scenario. People just got used t

I know people who had 4-5 hour RT commutes in the Bay. (Tracy <-> SF) It's ludicrous, but I suppose it's a bit of a boiled frog scenario. People just got used to having to commute from further and further away as housing has gotten less affordable.

hnlmorg 5y ago
If you're not having to drive then commutes can be easily optimised. You can read a book, chat to your commuter buddies on the train/boat/coach (in some instances over a beer so it's little different than being down the pub). I've even used my commuter time to catch up of pending PRs on open source projects I maintain. This obviously depends on your city / county / state having good public transport infrastructure but if the option is there and its practical then I'd take the train over driving to work any day of the week.
- rcpt 5y ago
  Door-to-desk plus desk-to-door was 3 hours for me. Even with the google bus that was pretty rough.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I had one of those--typically by train--for about 18 months though I didn't go in every day. I had to get up by about 6am to drive to the train station and it was just a big chunk of the day. I don't think I'd have found it sustainable over the long-term.
- watwut 5y ago
  But it makes equal chores split with partner regarding kids literally impossible. Practically, you barely ever see them and your dad role amounts to being wallet.
  - bluefirebrand 5y ago
    So many of the arguments made by pro-office people seem to boil down to "If you have a family or other non-work responsibilities, screw you"
    - lanstin 5y ago
      Fortunately, they aren't the boss of me, and also fortunately, the job market means my skills gives me enough power to push back against this idea all on my own, with no support from a union or strong laws or anything. A family isn't just a responsibility, it's a delight, a fulfilling life, human connection, everything you need wrapped up into a big ball of inconvenience and imperfection.
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      That may sometimes be the case, but it's definitely not the case with my post and nor am I a "pro-office" person. I don't miss the office. I miss the beers, the commute and city centre eateries. But I don't miss the office. People on HN often love to get on their high horse about parenting responsibilities but the fact remains that even the best parents need some "me" time occasionally. We do our best parenting when we're not mentally and physically exhausted. Much like a good company shouldn't allow their employees to burn out -- a good family shouldn't let either. So my point about the commute was about how that time can be optimised for relaxation so you can better serve your family once you are home.
      - watwut 5y ago
        I was more off on the topic of offloading all or most of that to partner who then has all of them. And very little to no "me time". We are not talking about beer with friends once in a while either. We are talking about regular very time consuming activity.
        hnlmorg 5y ago
        I'm not talking about offloading everything to the partner either. It sounds like you've only worked in organisations that force a really shitty work/life balance on their staff but I assure you that you can have your proverbial cake and eat it. Maybe it's a US vs Europe culture but here companies are generally (not always, there's a fair share of shitty companies here too) accepting of employees working from home when they need it. I've never once had a job that hasn't allowed me to work flexible hours to accommodate school runs and other family commitments, nor take time away when my child is ill. In fact because my wife is a school teacher (and thus has less flexibility in her job), she is the one who depends on me most of the time. The commute was the one little block of the day (and it wasn't every day) when I wasn't running around for a wife and two small children. So you can absolutely have a commute and still be dedicated to your family. You just can't work for c*nts who thinks a working relationship should be one way.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    No it doesn't. You can still flexible working even if you have a long commute. eg you might work from home 2 days a week. Your employer might allow flexible hours so you can do school duties. Your employer might even offer fewer hours or not mandate overtime. This isn't a theoretical argument either: I spend more time with the kids and help out with more duties since taking up a job with a 3 hour round trip of a commute than I did when I had a previous job in the same town. The distance will obviously have an impact on your day, but what matters far more is the employer. Plenty of employers enforce an unhealthy culture of > 40hr weeks. Whereas my current employer is very family focused and offers a lot of incentives to enable parents to balance work and home life.
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      Getting down voted for this despite saying I have first hand experience of this being true. I suggest people open their minds a little. IT is a broad industry and there are plenty of good jobs around doing interesting things that pay well and also offer a good work life balance. Again, I know this from first hand experience :)
ryandrake 5y ago
I'm in Livermore, so not as far out as Tracy, but depending on traffic, the one-way commute can be 1 hour 45 minutes (best case) up to 4 hours (worst-case Friday 4:00PM before a holiday weekend). Usual case is a little over 2 hours each way. The real soul killer is the unpredictability of it all. Every morning there's at least one jackass on each interstate highway leg that manages to crash their car into something, slowing everything down in a random, unpredictable way.
- tjr225 5y ago
  I had a similar commute from Olympia to Seattle for about 6 months. Absolutely soul crushing. The amount of people on their phones is mind boggling. My solution was to figure out how to afford to live in the city. I am privileged in that sense, however.
  - 0_____0 5y ago
    imo we should design housing policy such that a barista can live 30m walking from work if they want to

hnlmorg 5y ago

If you're not having to drive then commutes can be easily optimised. You can read a book, chat to your commuter buddies on the train/boat/coach (in some instances over a beer so it's little different than being down the pub). I've even used my commuter time to catch up of pending PRs on open source projects I maintain. This obviously depends on your city / county / state having good public transport infrastructure but if the option is there and its practical then I'd take the train over driving to work any day of the week.

rcpt 5y ago
Door-to-desk plus desk-to-door was 3 hours for me. Even with the google bus that was pretty rough.
- ghaff 5y ago
  I had one of those--typically by train--for about 18 months though I didn't go in every day. I had to get up by about 6am to drive to the train station and it was just a big chunk of the day. I don't think I'd have found it sustainable over the long-term.
watwut 5y ago
But it makes equal chores split with partner regarding kids literally impossible. Practically, you barely ever see them and your dad role amounts to being wallet.
- bluefirebrand 5y ago
  So many of the arguments made by pro-office people seem to boil down to "If you have a family or other non-work responsibilities, screw you"
  - lanstin 5y ago
    Fortunately, they aren't the boss of me, and also fortunately, the job market means my skills gives me enough power to push back against this idea all on my own, with no support from a union or strong laws or anything. A family isn't just a responsibility, it's a delight, a fulfilling life, human connection, everything you need wrapped up into a big ball of inconvenience and imperfection.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    That may sometimes be the case, but it's definitely not the case with my post and nor am I a "pro-office" person. I don't miss the office. I miss the beers, the commute and city centre eateries. But I don't miss the office. People on HN often love to get on their high horse about parenting responsibilities but the fact remains that even the best parents need some "me" time occasionally. We do our best parenting when we're not mentally and physically exhausted. Much like a good company shouldn't allow their employees to burn out -- a good family shouldn't let either. So my point about the commute was about how that time can be optimised for relaxation so you can better serve your family once you are home.
    - watwut 5y ago
      I was more off on the topic of offloading all or most of that to partner who then has all of them. And very little to no "me time". We are not talking about beer with friends once in a while either. We are talking about regular very time consuming activity.
      - hnlmorg 5y ago
        I'm not talking about offloading everything to the partner either. It sounds like you've only worked in organisations that force a really shitty work/life balance on their staff but I assure you that you can have your proverbial cake and eat it. Maybe it's a US vs Europe culture but here companies are generally (not always, there's a fair share of shitty companies here too) accepting of employees working from home when they need it. I've never once had a job that hasn't allowed me to work flexible hours to accommodate school runs and other family commitments, nor take time away when my child is ill. In fact because my wife is a school teacher (and thus has less flexibility in her job), she is the one who depends on me most of the time. The commute was the one little block of the day (and it wasn't every day) when I wasn't running around for a wife and two small children. So you can absolutely have a commute and still be dedicated to your family. You just can't work for c*nts who thinks a working relationship should be one way.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  No it doesn't. You can still flexible working even if you have a long commute. eg you might work from home 2 days a week. Your employer might allow flexible hours so you can do school duties. Your employer might even offer fewer hours or not mandate overtime. This isn't a theoretical argument either: I spend more time with the kids and help out with more duties since taking up a job with a 3 hour round trip of a commute than I did when I had a previous job in the same town. The distance will obviously have an impact on your day, but what matters far more is the employer. Plenty of employers enforce an unhealthy culture of > 40hr weeks. Whereas my current employer is very family focused and offers a lot of incentives to enable parents to balance work and home life.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    Getting down voted for this despite saying I have first hand experience of this being true. I suggest people open their minds a little. IT is a broad industry and there are plenty of good jobs around doing interesting things that pay well and also offer a good work life balance. Again, I know this from first hand experience :)

ryandrake 5y ago

I'm in Livermore, so not as far out as Tracy, but depending on traffic, the one-way commute can be 1 hour 45 minutes (best case) up to 4 hours (worst-case Friday 4:00PM before a holiday weekend). Usual case is a little over 2 hours each way. The real soul killer is the unpredictability of it all. Every morning there's at least one jackass on each interstate highway leg that manages to crash their car into something, slowing everything down in a random, unpredictable way.

tjr225 5y ago
I had a similar commute from Olympia to Seattle for about 6 months. Absolutely soul crushing. The amount of people on their phones is mind boggling. My solution was to figure out how to afford to live in the city. I am privileged in that sense, however.
- 0_____0 5y ago
  imo we should design housing policy such that a barista can live 30m walking from work if they want to