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You will be in the worst spot if snowbounded on a freeway with any electric vehicle and definitely no heat.

by egberts1 5y ago

jmercouris 5y ago
That is also true of a gas vehicle.
- egberts1 5y ago
  You can start, heat, then turn off. And this can go on for 72 hours on a full-tank in 28 degree weather. Bet you can’t do that with today’s electric car.
  - leoedin 5y ago
    Here's a video with a Tesla Model 3 keeping the cabin at 21 C for 71 hours in -4 C (24.8 F) weather. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpzB3RbjuHI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpzB3RbjuHI That car has a heat pump for cabin heat, which has a coefficient of performance of 3-4. That means you only need 1/3 of the heat energy as electrical input. Compare that to a gasoline engine, where almost all the energy in your fuel is wasted as heat outside the cabin. I don't know what fraction actually makes it into the cabin - but I'm guessing it's single digit percent.
    - SigmundA 5y ago
      Heat pumps drop in efficiency the colder it gets and only work down to a certain temp. If the outside coils get too cold they freeze up preventing it from functioning properly. would be interesting to know how cold the Tesla heat pump can operate down to and if it has resistive backup. Edit: looks like the heat pump only works down to about 14F then it runs the heat pump in recirculation mode to basically turning it into a resistive heater with COP 1, its also seems to have 12v aux heat strips.
  - SigmundA 5y ago
    You can run a 1500w resistive heater for 50 hours on a 75kwh battery. I run a 1500w heater in my 30ft RV and it holds comfortable temps down to freezing, in a small vehicle it should have no problem even down to very low temps, 750 watt might be plenty to keep the interior at a safe temp.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > Bet you can’t do that with today’s electric car. Do you realise an electric car comes with a massive electric battery that you can use to run the heater? Unlike a petrol or diesel car, you won't be risking poisoning yourself while you sleep either.
    - kortilla 5y ago
      > Unlike a petrol or diesel car, you won't be risking poisoning yourself while you sleep either. Unless you’re doing this in your garage, that’s not a risk
      - SigmundA 5y ago
        Snowbound car CO poisoning happens all the time: https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/carbon-monoxide-killed-three-men-in-snowbound-cars-coroner https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/carbon-monoxide-...
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        Very dangerous misunderstanding! Snow packed up around a vehicle has the same effect as being in a garage and definitely can cause lethal poisoning. When I'm doing multi-day off-roading we carry exhaust hoses to take the fumes far away, even though we're outside the whole time.
WJW 5y ago
Cool. Maybe electric vehicle adoption will stop around 95% then, people in very snowy countries can still drive some fossil fueled vehicle (or simply carry around a small kerosene heater in their trunk). For the vast majority of the world getting snowed in is not a common enough problem to drive vehicle choice.
- kortilla 5y ago
  Might you have heard of the US? Salt Lake, Denver, Minneapolis, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, New York, Boston, DC...
  - WJW 5y ago
    The US as a whole has less than 5% of the worlds population, and even in the states there are plenty of people in places like Florida and California where the threat of getting snowed in is pretty minimal. Most countries with significant snow risk are also pretty sparsely populated, so 95% is not far off.
    - kortilla 5y ago
      It’s pretty far off if you’re talking about the population that can afford Teslas.
      - WJW 5y ago
        There are more electric vehicle manufacturers than Tesla and many of those are specifically targeting the cheaper price brackets.
bryanlarsen 5y ago
I know people who have died from Carbon Monoxide poisoning when they got snowbound in an ICE car. In an electric car if you are snowbound, turn off the cabin heating and rely on seat heaters. They use about 50W each, so would last 1000 hours if you have 50kWh of life left in your battery.
audunw 5y ago
Norway has several dangerous mountain crossings where you need to wait for a long time so you can drive behind a snow plower. This country is like a worst case scenario for EVs in this regard. Yet the share of EV sales is over 50% now. Here's some Google-translated articles for you: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https://nye.naf.no/elbil/bruke-elbil/kolonnekjoring-med-elbil https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https:/... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https://nye.naf.no/elbil/bruke-elbil/kolonnekjoring-med-elbil https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https:/... EVs with a decent battery is now considered much safer as far as I can tell. I've never heard of anyone dying due to getting stuck in the snow with an EV, despite there being tens of thousands of EVs here for many years now. This will never happen in an EV: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/boy-1-and-mom-killed-by-carbon-monoxide-as-dad-clears-snow-girl-in-critical-condition/1196363/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/boy-1-and-mom-killed-b...

You will be in the worst spot if snowbounded on a freeway with any electric vehicle and definitely no heat.

jmercouris 5y ago

That is also true of a gas vehicle.

egberts1 5y ago
You can start, heat, then turn off. And this can go on for 72 hours on a full-tank in 28 degree weather. Bet you can’t do that with today’s electric car.
- leoedin 5y ago
  Here's a video with a Tesla Model 3 keeping the cabin at 21 C for 71 hours in -4 C (24.8 F) weather. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpzB3RbjuHI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpzB3RbjuHI That car has a heat pump for cabin heat, which has a coefficient of performance of 3-4. That means you only need 1/3 of the heat energy as electrical input. Compare that to a gasoline engine, where almost all the energy in your fuel is wasted as heat outside the cabin. I don't know what fraction actually makes it into the cabin - but I'm guessing it's single digit percent.
  - SigmundA 5y ago
    Heat pumps drop in efficiency the colder it gets and only work down to a certain temp. If the outside coils get too cold they freeze up preventing it from functioning properly. would be interesting to know how cold the Tesla heat pump can operate down to and if it has resistive backup. Edit: looks like the heat pump only works down to about 14F then it runs the heat pump in recirculation mode to basically turning it into a resistive heater with COP 1, its also seems to have 12v aux heat strips.
- SigmundA 5y ago
  You can run a 1500w resistive heater for 50 hours on a 75kwh battery. I run a 1500w heater in my 30ft RV and it holds comfortable temps down to freezing, in a small vehicle it should have no problem even down to very low temps, 750 watt might be plenty to keep the interior at a safe temp.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > Bet you can’t do that with today’s electric car. Do you realise an electric car comes with a massive electric battery that you can use to run the heater? Unlike a petrol or diesel car, you won't be risking poisoning yourself while you sleep either.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    > Unlike a petrol or diesel car, you won't be risking poisoning yourself while you sleep either. Unless you’re doing this in your garage, that’s not a risk
    - SigmundA 5y ago
      Snowbound car CO poisoning happens all the time: https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/carbon-monoxide-killed-three-men-in-snowbound-cars-coroner https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/carbon-monoxide-...
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Very dangerous misunderstanding! Snow packed up around a vehicle has the same effect as being in a garage and definitely can cause lethal poisoning. When I'm doing multi-day off-roading we carry exhaust hoses to take the fumes far away, even though we're outside the whole time.

WJW 5y ago

Cool. Maybe electric vehicle adoption will stop around 95% then, people in very snowy countries can still drive some fossil fueled vehicle (or simply carry around a small kerosene heater in their trunk). For the vast majority of the world getting snowed in is not a common enough problem to drive vehicle choice.

kortilla 5y ago
Might you have heard of the US? Salt Lake, Denver, Minneapolis, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, New York, Boston, DC...
- WJW 5y ago
  The US as a whole has less than 5% of the worlds population, and even in the states there are plenty of people in places like Florida and California where the threat of getting snowed in is pretty minimal. Most countries with significant snow risk are also pretty sparsely populated, so 95% is not far off.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    It’s pretty far off if you’re talking about the population that can afford Teslas.
    - WJW 5y ago
      There are more electric vehicle manufacturers than Tesla and many of those are specifically targeting the cheaper price brackets.

bryanlarsen 5y ago

I know people who have died from Carbon Monoxide poisoning when they got snowbound in an ICE car. In an electric car if you are snowbound, turn off the cabin heating and rely on seat heaters. They use about 50W each, so would last 1000 hours if you have 50kWh of life left in your battery.

audunw 5y ago

Norway has several dangerous mountain crossings where you need to wait for a long time so you can drive behind a snow plower. This country is like a worst case scenario for EVs in this regard. Yet the share of EV sales is over 50% now. Here's some Google-translated articles for you: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https://nye.naf.no/elbil/bruke-elbil/kolonnekjoring-med-elbil https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https:/... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https://nye.naf.no/elbil/bruke-elbil/kolonnekjoring-med-elbil https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https:/... EVs with a decent battery is now considered much safer as far as I can tell. I've never heard of anyone dying due to getting stuck in the snow with an EV, despite there being tens of thousands of EVs here for many years now. This will never happen in an EV: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/boy-1-and-mom-killed-by-carbon-monoxide-as-dad-clears-snow-girl-in-critical-condition/1196363/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/boy-1-and-mom-killed-b...