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I’m still on Mojave since it is the last version with 32 bit app support (backwards compatibility is required for some apps I need). Pity. I’m also anti-touch b

I’m still on Mojave since it is the last version with 32 bit app support (backwards compatibility is required for some apps I need). Pity. I’m also anti-touch bar, have no interest in Arm based Macs (no dual/triple boot), so effectively Apple have decided to ignore me as a customer (and my house hold history of 3 MBP, 2 imacs and 6 phones). I’m sure the competition will like my money ...

tikej 5y ago
I’m in similar situation. Didn’t upgrade from Mojave and like my system so far but wondering where to go from here. What competition would you recommend in terms of hardware+system?
- firecall 5y ago
  Lots of modern Linux is excellent. Ubuntu, Linux Mint and so on. Even Windows 10 is much better now than Windows used to be. WSL can be great! For hardware - take your pick. Microsofts own line of laptops are pretty good. But nothing really replace macOS for me. I've tried, and can get a long way with Linux or Windows. macOS is still the desktop OS for me. I'd more easily switch to Android from iOS than I could give up macOS for good! :-)
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    Pop_os! has easily been the "easiest" distro to use for me. Zero-fuss monitor and screen resolution detection, which seems to be one of the biggest annoyances these days. Pretty much the only thing I like about macOS is installing hammerspoon, and the only reason I use mac at all is work requires it, so take my preferences with a grain or two of salt
tinus_hn 5y ago
Just get a Dell to run these 32 bit Mac OS apps you require!
gogopuppygogo 5y ago
I think the increased performance of Apple Silicon along with its exemplary battery life will attract enough people that it’ll more than cover any folks who need x86 for multiple operating systems. I also will miss having x86 in a Mac but I’m ready to have all day battery life in a 16” MacBook.
l1ghthouse 5y ago
What apps? Just curious
- grishka 5y ago
  MS Office 2011 comes to mind. There are also many macOS games that are 32-bit and were never updated.
- jeswin 5y ago
  For me, Macromedia Fireworks CS4. It does everything I need, so I don't feel like upgrading to Adobe's new cloud subscription plans.
  - stephenr 5y ago
    > Macromedia Fireworks CS4 Wow. I have fond memories of FW (in a job far far away). I'd have _thought_ one of the alternative (i.e. non Adobe) vector apps that came out would be able to replace it though? No? (I'm not a designer by any means, I just happened to fall into a role where I ended up doing some really basic CRUD app UI design work because they had no one else).
  - extra88 5y ago
    “New” subscription plans, started almost eight years ago. I assume Fireworks runs adequately in your setup but it’s not like that’s your only alternative to a subscription, there’s the Affinity products, Pixelmator, GIMP of course, and I’m sure others that run natively.
- dividedbyzero 5y ago
  Lightroom 4 in my case – I've switched to CaptureOne with Adobe's Cloud-only move, but I have a library of old photos that I still need to access from time to time.
stephenr 5y ago
Unless those apps are particularly performance sensitive, I'd recommend updating the host OS, and run the 32bit stuff in a Mojave VM. I still run a Sierra VM for a billing/invoicing app I haven't migrated off of yet. I wouldn't want to use it for my IDE, but for stuff you need occasionally, it's fine IME.
- cgufus 5y ago
  Do you have by chance instructions on how you put sierra in a VM? Which VM product do you use and how is the performance (especially GUI responsiveness)?
  - stephenr 5y ago
    I use Parallels. I honestly don't remember how I set it up initially (I still used Sierra on the host when I originally set it up, for a different reason, relating to the terrible setup process of that same software being unreliable, and not wanting to repeat it whenever I reinstalled my host OS). I just did a quick test - if you make a bootable macOS USB installer (instructions here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372) and then use the 'New VM' wizard in Parallels, it detects the USB drive as an installer source. It may also detect a downloaded installer App too, but I don't have one (that isn't on a bootable USB drive). Performance is not like native, obviously, but it's workable enough for utility programs. VMWare Fusion has an option to prefer an eGPU, so that may give better results than e.g. the Intel graphics if you're on a Mac mini (and have an eGPU). But I don't know specifically how Fusion does with macOS guests. I only have it so I can build Vagrant boxes that support VMware, I don't actually use it for anything else.
sdevonoes 5y ago
I am in the same situation, and I had the same mindset as you have. Not anymore. > so effectively Apple have decided to ignore me as a customer Replace Apple with (almost) any other recognizable brand out there and we are in the same scenario: - I recently wanted to buy some Nike sneakers because my 5-year-old model doesn't stand it anymore. Guess what? All the new models are way different than the one I have. I don't like them, they look "bad" (too modern?). Nike is ignoring me as a customer - I wanted to purchase an mp3 player. The model I wanted, of course, is not there anymore, and all the new models are just not for me - I wanted to purchase the same jeans I had purchased 2 years ago from a recognizable brand. Sorry, no sorry; that model is not available anymore. Companies are moving "forward" ignoring people like us. I guess that makes sense from an economic point of view for these companies. It's just sad for me, and I can't do much about it.
- grishka 5y ago
  This is most evident in the smartphone market. I want a 4" phone with a decent camera and a headphone jack. Because I still primarily use my phone as a limited communication device. I don't watch videos on my phone at all. I do take pictures with it and I do sometimes listen to music on it. My primary device is still my computer and that isn't going to change. The large screen brings me exactly zero benefits for my use cases, and it makes it very awkward to use with one hand. Yet guess what? Phones these days start at 6". And if you want to spend extra money on something of high quality, it's guaranteed to have a huge screen because you can't not want one. So much for "voting with your wallet"...
  - Fredej 5y ago
    I've been you, but moved on when I got an iPhone XS from work. PC is still the main device and I don't use the phone for video. Mostly reddit, music, podcast and the occasional picture. Things I do when on the move. The missing headphone jack turned out be basically a non-issue, even though that kept me back from upgrading - the converter stays on the headphone jack at all times (I think the force to pull it out is higher than standard headphones jacks as well). It's very rare that I'm in a situation where I want to charge the phone while being connected to a headphone jack. Not sure I've experienced it yet. It sounds like something like the iPhone 12 mini would work for you if you gave it a shot. It's a bit larger (5.4") than something like the iPhone 4 (5") but it doesn't feel like a huge phone. I'm intending to replace my iPhone XS with a device of that size when its time for me to get a new phone.
znpy 5y ago
> so effectively Apple have decided to ignore me as a customer yep. as a customer you are worthless, you count nothing, and nobody at apple gives a flying fck about your opinion. but that's just apple. if you hadn't realized before it's just because you didn't want to see that.
ralfn 5y ago
Yet here I am as a Linux user actually hoping the competition can even catch up on the hardware side of things, since it's all so locked down when Apple does it. But I have no illusion about a future for the x86 arch on mobile devices, like laptops. There is none. You can bury yourself next to its dead corpse of course. I don't know what you think the competition is, but you don't need a new computer to run old programs. And your new computer won't be better than your old one, if it still compatible in the way you seem to care about. All the competition is moving in the same direction. That you can not run your old legacy programs from 15 years ago on a dual boot with a competing OS. Nobody wants you as a customer with these terms, why would they? You sound needy, difficult and cheap. If you don't even intend to replace your existing software with new software from their store, they wouldn't even want to waste an ad view on you. And the direction of a trillion dollar industry isn't going to be influenced by your lack of being able to run Office '98 on a dual boot. That's actually not how capitalism works. I don't always like it either, but these threats of I'm going to with hold this pocket change money. It's a such a misunderstanding of capitalism. It's like a 15 year old gamers threatening to not buy EA games.
dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
I have several Mac Pros; the ones before 2013 were actually upgradeable so I put 16 GB in all of them and 2x2 TB SSD; I run Mojave thanks to Dosdude. They're perfectly fine for app development. I plan to buy M2 though once M3 comes out since I have a feeling amd64 will be phased out relatively quickly. You don't have much choice if you develop for iOS.

tikej 5y ago

I’m in similar situation. Didn’t upgrade from Mojave and like my system so far but wondering where to go from here. What competition would you recommend in terms of hardware+system?

firecall 5y ago
Lots of modern Linux is excellent. Ubuntu, Linux Mint and so on. Even Windows 10 is much better now than Windows used to be. WSL can be great! For hardware - take your pick. Microsofts own line of laptops are pretty good. But nothing really replace macOS for me. I've tried, and can get a long way with Linux or Windows. macOS is still the desktop OS for me. I'd more easily switch to Android from iOS than I could give up macOS for good! :-)
- zdragnar 5y ago
  Pop_os! has easily been the "easiest" distro to use for me. Zero-fuss monitor and screen resolution detection, which seems to be one of the biggest annoyances these days. Pretty much the only thing I like about macOS is installing hammerspoon, and the only reason I use mac at all is work requires it, so take my preferences with a grain or two of salt

tinus_hn 5y ago

Just get a Dell to run these 32 bit Mac OS apps you require!

gogopuppygogo 5y ago

I think the increased performance of Apple Silicon along with its exemplary battery life will attract enough people that it’ll more than cover any folks who need x86 for multiple operating systems. I also will miss having x86 in a Mac but I’m ready to have all day battery life in a 16” MacBook.

l1ghthouse 5y ago

What apps? Just curious

grishka 5y ago
MS Office 2011 comes to mind. There are also many macOS games that are 32-bit and were never updated.
jeswin 5y ago
For me, Macromedia Fireworks CS4. It does everything I need, so I don't feel like upgrading to Adobe's new cloud subscription plans.
- stephenr 5y ago
  > Macromedia Fireworks CS4 Wow. I have fond memories of FW (in a job far far away). I'd have _thought_ one of the alternative (i.e. non Adobe) vector apps that came out would be able to replace it though? No? (I'm not a designer by any means, I just happened to fall into a role where I ended up doing some really basic CRUD app UI design work because they had no one else).
- extra88 5y ago
  “New” subscription plans, started almost eight years ago. I assume Fireworks runs adequately in your setup but it’s not like that’s your only alternative to a subscription, there’s the Affinity products, Pixelmator, GIMP of course, and I’m sure others that run natively.
dividedbyzero 5y ago
Lightroom 4 in my case – I've switched to CaptureOne with Adobe's Cloud-only move, but I have a library of old photos that I still need to access from time to time.

stephenr 5y ago

Unless those apps are particularly performance sensitive, I'd recommend updating the host OS, and run the 32bit stuff in a Mojave VM. I still run a Sierra VM for a billing/invoicing app I haven't migrated off of yet. I wouldn't want to use it for my IDE, but for stuff you need occasionally, it's fine IME.

cgufus 5y ago
Do you have by chance instructions on how you put sierra in a VM? Which VM product do you use and how is the performance (especially GUI responsiveness)?
- stephenr 5y ago
  I use Parallels. I honestly don't remember how I set it up initially (I still used Sierra on the host when I originally set it up, for a different reason, relating to the terrible setup process of that same software being unreliable, and not wanting to repeat it whenever I reinstalled my host OS). I just did a quick test - if you make a bootable macOS USB installer (instructions here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372) and then use the 'New VM' wizard in Parallels, it detects the USB drive as an installer source. It may also detect a downloaded installer App too, but I don't have one (that isn't on a bootable USB drive). Performance is not like native, obviously, but it's workable enough for utility programs. VMWare Fusion has an option to prefer an eGPU, so that may give better results than e.g. the Intel graphics if you're on a Mac mini (and have an eGPU). But I don't know specifically how Fusion does with macOS guests. I only have it so I can build Vagrant boxes that support VMware, I don't actually use it for anything else.

sdevonoes 5y ago

I am in the same situation, and I had the same mindset as you have. Not anymore. > so effectively Apple have decided to ignore me as a customer Replace Apple with (almost) any other recognizable brand out there and we are in the same scenario: - I recently wanted to buy some Nike sneakers because my 5-year-old model doesn't stand it anymore. Guess what? All the new models are way different than the one I have. I don't like them, they look "bad" (too modern?). Nike is ignoring me as a customer - I wanted to purchase an mp3 player. The model I wanted, of course, is not there anymore, and all the new models are just not for me - I wanted to purchase the same jeans I had purchased 2 years ago from a recognizable brand. Sorry, no sorry; that model is not available anymore. Companies are moving "forward" ignoring people like us. I guess that makes sense from an economic point of view for these companies. It's just sad for me, and I can't do much about it.

grishka 5y ago
This is most evident in the smartphone market. I want a 4" phone with a decent camera and a headphone jack. Because I still primarily use my phone as a limited communication device. I don't watch videos on my phone at all. I do take pictures with it and I do sometimes listen to music on it. My primary device is still my computer and that isn't going to change. The large screen brings me exactly zero benefits for my use cases, and it makes it very awkward to use with one hand. Yet guess what? Phones these days start at 6". And if you want to spend extra money on something of high quality, it's guaranteed to have a huge screen because you can't not want one. So much for "voting with your wallet"...
- Fredej 5y ago
  I've been you, but moved on when I got an iPhone XS from work. PC is still the main device and I don't use the phone for video. Mostly reddit, music, podcast and the occasional picture. Things I do when on the move. The missing headphone jack turned out be basically a non-issue, even though that kept me back from upgrading - the converter stays on the headphone jack at all times (I think the force to pull it out is higher than standard headphones jacks as well). It's very rare that I'm in a situation where I want to charge the phone while being connected to a headphone jack. Not sure I've experienced it yet. It sounds like something like the iPhone 12 mini would work for you if you gave it a shot. It's a bit larger (5.4") than something like the iPhone 4 (5") but it doesn't feel like a huge phone. I'm intending to replace my iPhone XS with a device of that size when its time for me to get a new phone.

znpy 5y ago

> so effectively Apple have decided to ignore me as a customer yep. as a customer you are worthless, you count nothing, and nobody at apple gives a flying fck about your opinion. but that's just apple. if you hadn't realized before it's just because you didn't want to see that.

ralfn 5y ago

Yet here I am as a Linux user actually hoping the competition can even catch up on the hardware side of things, since it's all so locked down when Apple does it. But I have no illusion about a future for the x86 arch on mobile devices, like laptops. There is none. You can bury yourself next to its dead corpse of course. I don't know what you think the competition is, but you don't need a new computer to run old programs. And your new computer won't be better than your old one, if it still compatible in the way you seem to care about. All the competition is moving in the same direction. That you can not run your old legacy programs from 15 years ago on a dual boot with a competing OS. Nobody wants you as a customer with these terms, why would they? You sound needy, difficult and cheap. If you don't even intend to replace your existing software with new software from their store, they wouldn't even want to waste an ad view on you. And the direction of a trillion dollar industry isn't going to be influenced by your lack of being able to run Office '98 on a dual boot. That's actually not how capitalism works. I don't always like it either, but these threats of I'm going to with hold this pocket change money. It's a such a misunderstanding of capitalism. It's like a 15 year old gamers threatening to not buy EA games.

dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago

I have several Mac Pros; the ones before 2013 were actually upgradeable so I put 16 GB in all of them and 2x2 TB SSD; I run Mojave thanks to Dosdude. They're perfectly fine for app development. I plan to buy M2 though once M3 comes out since I have a feeling amd64 will be phased out relatively quickly. You don't have much choice if you develop for iOS.