6 ms·

I'm pretty sure the longevity of chips manufactured now is going to be alot shorter than for older chips if you can run them at the same temperature! Both lito

by bullen 5y ago

I'm pretty sure the longevity of chips manufactured now is going to be alot shorter than for older chips if you can run them at the same temperature! Both litography and the desperate search for infinite growth is going to hurt in the long run! I'm stacking up on 14nm Atom that I can passively cool at 42 degrees celcius full blast on 8 cores and 50nm (100.000 writes per bit) X25-E SSDs!

nicolapcweek94 5y ago
Got any specs on those Atoms? A passively cooled homelab build sounds pretty interesting...
- timeinput 5y ago
  I have [1] which has a similar chip to what the parent described. Its a fun little computer. [1] https://www.newegg.com/supermicro-mbd-a1sri-2758f-o-intel-atom-c2758-2-4ghz-cpu-tdp-20w/p/N82E16813182855 https://www.newegg.com/supermicro-mbd-a1sri-2758f-o-intel-at...
- bullen 5y ago
  It's the SuperMicro ones from 2017.
- Marsymars 5y ago
  I'm planning on building a mini-ITX Atom-based system in the future either with a Jasper Lake (Pentium N6005) or a future Alder Lake-L CPU. ASRock makes mini-ITX motherboards with integrated Atom CPUs that are a bit more modern than Supermicro offerings.
  - bullen 5y ago
    I'm not waiting for an eventual tiny improvement in Gflops/watt... the SuperMicro boards are really industrial and the Atom line is being cancelled for a low wattage version of the consumer chips! I think these boards are the first and last to be able to run 100 years! Earlier models consume too much energy and subsequent will be too fragile/complex!
bayindirh 5y ago
> I'm pretty sure the longevity of chips manufactured now is going to be alot shorter than for older chips if you can run them at the same temperature! Don't be so sure. If it was going to be the case, we'd be changing CPUs like early Seagate disks at our datacenter. There's no measurable longevity loss in the CPUs that we observed in our data center. We use every system for ~7 years at full load.
- bullen 5y ago
  What temp you got on those machines? Since you haven't tried the 7nm CPUs yet I guess we'll have to see? 7 years sounds really short to me, I'm planning on running my machines for 100 years!
  - bayindirh 5y ago
    Just looked to a bunch of Xeon Gold 6258Rs. They're running around ~70 degrees Celsius per die. The machine is under full load. I'm sure its fans are at full speed. That CPU's reported temperatures are 81 for high, 91 for critical (in degrees Celsius). We get new systems almost every year, so we have a rolling set consisting many systems. So, we have a cross section of systems to observe.
    - bullen 5y ago
      My rule of thumb is "if hardware is too hot for you to hold your finger on it indefinitely" it's too hot and it's going to break very soon! Temperature kills hardware, you need to bring those temperatures down, and the only way to do that is to lower the wattage! Atom is the perfect design, no crap and low power!
      - bayindirh 5y ago
        > "if hardware is too hot for you to hold your finger on it indefinitely" it's too hot and it's going to break very soon! From my experience, that doesn't happen like that in enterprise hardware. Either wrong voltage (inside the system) or defective design causes premature death. If the server BMC says it's fine, it's fine. > Temperature kills hardware, you need to bring those temperatures down, and the only way to do that is to lower the wattage! High Performance Computing doesn't work like that, unfortunately :) > Atom is the perfect design, no crap and low power! I'm sure it has its own uses and can accomplish a lot, but in HPC, it won't cut it. I use small SBCs at home to do and try a lot of fun and useful stuff, but it has limits.
grandinj 5y ago
The wear on most electronics is more dependent on thermal __cycling__ than it is on temperature, assuming it is run without it's operating temperature regime.
ryder9 5y ago
[citation required], make claims based on data not on your feelings

by bullen 5y ago

nicolapcweek94 5y ago

Got any specs on those Atoms? A passively cooled homelab build sounds pretty interesting...

timeinput 5y ago
I have [1] which has a similar chip to what the parent described. Its a fun little computer. [1] https://www.newegg.com/supermicro-mbd-a1sri-2758f-o-intel-atom-c2758-2-4ghz-cpu-tdp-20w/p/N82E16813182855 https://www.newegg.com/supermicro-mbd-a1sri-2758f-o-intel-at...
bullen 5y ago
It's the SuperMicro ones from 2017.
Marsymars 5y ago
I'm planning on building a mini-ITX Atom-based system in the future either with a Jasper Lake (Pentium N6005) or a future Alder Lake-L CPU. ASRock makes mini-ITX motherboards with integrated Atom CPUs that are a bit more modern than Supermicro offerings.
- bullen 5y ago
  I'm not waiting for an eventual tiny improvement in Gflops/watt... the SuperMicro boards are really industrial and the Atom line is being cancelled for a low wattage version of the consumer chips! I think these boards are the first and last to be able to run 100 years! Earlier models consume too much energy and subsequent will be too fragile/complex!

bayindirh 5y ago

> I'm pretty sure the longevity of chips manufactured now is going to be alot shorter than for older chips if you can run them at the same temperature! Don't be so sure. If it was going to be the case, we'd be changing CPUs like early Seagate disks at our datacenter. There's no measurable longevity loss in the CPUs that we observed in our data center. We use every system for ~7 years at full load.

bullen 5y ago
What temp you got on those machines? Since you haven't tried the 7nm CPUs yet I guess we'll have to see? 7 years sounds really short to me, I'm planning on running my machines for 100 years!
- bayindirh 5y ago
  Just looked to a bunch of Xeon Gold 6258Rs. They're running around ~70 degrees Celsius per die. The machine is under full load. I'm sure its fans are at full speed. That CPU's reported temperatures are 81 for high, 91 for critical (in degrees Celsius). We get new systems almost every year, so we have a rolling set consisting many systems. So, we have a cross section of systems to observe.
  - bullen 5y ago
    My rule of thumb is "if hardware is too hot for you to hold your finger on it indefinitely" it's too hot and it's going to break very soon! Temperature kills hardware, you need to bring those temperatures down, and the only way to do that is to lower the wattage! Atom is the perfect design, no crap and low power!
    - bayindirh 5y ago
      > "if hardware is too hot for you to hold your finger on it indefinitely" it's too hot and it's going to break very soon! From my experience, that doesn't happen like that in enterprise hardware. Either wrong voltage (inside the system) or defective design causes premature death. If the server BMC says it's fine, it's fine. > Temperature kills hardware, you need to bring those temperatures down, and the only way to do that is to lower the wattage! High Performance Computing doesn't work like that, unfortunately :) > Atom is the perfect design, no crap and low power! I'm sure it has its own uses and can accomplish a lot, but in HPC, it won't cut it. I use small SBCs at home to do and try a lot of fun and useful stuff, but it has limits.

grandinj 5y ago

The wear on most electronics is more dependent on thermal __cycling__ than it is on temperature, assuming it is run without it's operating temperature regime.

ryder9 5y ago

[citation required], make claims based on data not on your feelings