4 ms·

There was a study that claimed to prove that antioxidants can prevent the stress that causes sleep deprivation to be fatal, and that this fundamentally originat

There was a study that claimed to prove that antioxidants can prevent the stress that causes sleep deprivation to be fatal, and that this fundamentally originates in the digestive system across quite different species. They didn't extend lifespan compared to baseline, but they restored baseline lifespan to sleep deprived subjects by feeding them various substances. They tried a bunch of antioxidants, the most readily available one was melatonin, I think, but it's not clear to me what it all means. If mice and fruit flies can live without sleep, would it work for humans? Do antioxidants help humans with sleep disorders? All I know is that over the counter melatonin does not seem to work any miracles for me. I have no idea if it would make me capable of staying awake 24/7 if forced. Lifespan is a separate issue, but you could look at eliminating sleep, if possible, as living 1/3 (or more) longer.

raducu 5y ago
What kind of miracles do you expect from melatonin? To make you fall asleep? Do not take more than 450micro grams, over the counter contains waaay to much melatonin. Melatonin is an antioxidant, but it is not a miracle hormone. It just signals the absence of light. Owls and other nocturnal animals get wide awake in the presence of melatonin, humans and diurnal animals get sleepy.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  I don't expect anything in particular. As I wrote, I've tried it and it doesn't do anything amazing. I had previously tried it on recommendation from a sleep specialist before I read about the idea that it reverses metabolic damage from sleep deprivation. Over the counter supplements usually seem to have way too large a dose, and I've read they can be very inconsistent too. The point is, I read this amazing study, and it may be somehow incorrect or even fraudulent, but it is what it is. Sleep deprivation kills. The claim is that via, not one, but any of several substances, that can be reversed, at least in lab insects/animals. I definitely am not advising anyone take any supplements. I want to clearly state that I don't experience any particular beneficial effects from anything I've tried. I just am saying that uncovering the reason why sleep is needed has to have world changing applications, or end up as a spectacular debunking, it seems to me.
  - raducu 5y ago
    I understand and I know certain people use mega-dosages(10-15 miligrams) to protect themselves from neurotoxicity of certain drugs, but I'm sure that's just bro-science. I would steer away from melatonin as a supplement for anything other than sleep, because it is a powerful hormone and while the science is lacking, it's better not to mess with such a powerful and important hormone.
    - perl4ever 5y ago
      I really wish for reform in regulation, so that quality and dosage of over the counter supplements could be trusted. I haven't heard of any groundswell of support for that, though. People say that it's a problem with cannabis supplements too.
- Traubenfuchs 5y ago
  What's with the exact 450 mcg recommendation? What happens if I take more?
  - raducu 5y ago
    There was a MIT study that the optimal doaage for sleep is around 300mcg. The body produces about 30mcg of melatonin afik, and the oral bioavailability of melatonin is about 10% so, the math works out. More might produce excessive grogginess after you wake up, and in my experience it leads to fast tolerance -- so it doesn't work; 300-450mcg works in perpetuity for me.
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    I get really bad restless legs on enough of it- so I get groggy, but end up taking longer to sleep and feel less rested after.
  - vidarh 5y ago
    The precise dose that works for you may vary, but a significant sign you've taken too much is feeling really tired and groggy the following day. For me up to about 1mg seems to work fine but I've not used it enough to see how well it works below that.

raducu 5y ago

What kind of miracles do you expect from melatonin? To make you fall asleep? Do not take more than 450micro grams, over the counter contains waaay to much melatonin. Melatonin is an antioxidant, but it is not a miracle hormone. It just signals the absence of light. Owls and other nocturnal animals get wide awake in the presence of melatonin, humans and diurnal animals get sleepy.

perl4ever 5y ago
I don't expect anything in particular. As I wrote, I've tried it and it doesn't do anything amazing. I had previously tried it on recommendation from a sleep specialist before I read about the idea that it reverses metabolic damage from sleep deprivation. Over the counter supplements usually seem to have way too large a dose, and I've read they can be very inconsistent too. The point is, I read this amazing study, and it may be somehow incorrect or even fraudulent, but it is what it is. Sleep deprivation kills. The claim is that via, not one, but any of several substances, that can be reversed, at least in lab insects/animals. I definitely am not advising anyone take any supplements. I want to clearly state that I don't experience any particular beneficial effects from anything I've tried. I just am saying that uncovering the reason why sleep is needed has to have world changing applications, or end up as a spectacular debunking, it seems to me.
- raducu 5y ago
  I understand and I know certain people use mega-dosages(10-15 miligrams) to protect themselves from neurotoxicity of certain drugs, but I'm sure that's just bro-science. I would steer away from melatonin as a supplement for anything other than sleep, because it is a powerful hormone and while the science is lacking, it's better not to mess with such a powerful and important hormone.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    I really wish for reform in regulation, so that quality and dosage of over the counter supplements could be trusted. I haven't heard of any groundswell of support for that, though. People say that it's a problem with cannabis supplements too.
Traubenfuchs 5y ago
What's with the exact 450 mcg recommendation? What happens if I take more?
- raducu 5y ago
  There was a MIT study that the optimal doaage for sleep is around 300mcg. The body produces about 30mcg of melatonin afik, and the oral bioavailability of melatonin is about 10% so, the math works out. More might produce excessive grogginess after you wake up, and in my experience it leads to fast tolerance -- so it doesn't work; 300-450mcg works in perpetuity for me.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  I get really bad restless legs on enough of it- so I get groggy, but end up taking longer to sleep and feel less rested after.
- vidarh 5y ago
  The precise dose that works for you may vary, but a significant sign you've taken too much is feeling really tired and groggy the following day. For me up to about 1mg seems to work fine but I've not used it enough to see how well it works below that.