7 ms·

A Brief History of the Amphicar – President Lyndon Johnson’s Favorite Car (2020)

30 points by samclemens 5y ago

SNosTrAnDbLe 5y ago
This reminds me of the duck tours of sf. I never took one but always saw these behind the ATT stadium! I just looked up and looks like they closed permanently!
- psim1 5y ago
  I loved the ducky tour of Montreal, driving through the historic old city and into the St. Laurence River for the second half of the tour. Other than these bus-boats I have never seen a civilian amphibious vehicle.
- ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
  Those things are notorious death traps.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    What are people expecting? They're 75yo vehicles who's capacity and seaworthiness were defined relative to very different cultural norms regarding safety and a national emergency that necessitated acceptance of some additional risk. Heck, the base truck chassis would be a workplace injury lawsuit waiting to happen by modern standards. Other than the one that capsized in Missouri a few years back the Wikipedia page listing fatal accidents is surprisingly devoid of sinkings.
    - MisterTea 5y ago
      > What are people expecting? A safe experience. There is always risk involved but floating things are a solved problem. > They're 75yo vehicles who's capacity and seaworthiness were defined relative to very different cultural norms regarding safety and a national emergency that necessitated acceptance of some additional risk. Duck boats are antiquated military vehicles which are modified by their owners via cutting them in half and extending them. One owner did the work himself with little to no experience in that area with zero engineering oversight. Basically the guy winged it and people died.
eminemence 5y ago
That cutaway drawing is very nice. Is there a site where all such 60s-70s cutaway drawings are listed?
- yread 5y ago
  There are a lot on reddit.com/r/ThingsCutInHalfPorn
bambax 5y ago
I don't understand why amphibious vehicles never seem to take off. There are regular attempts but the companies usually close shop after the first few years. Why is that? Is it that people aren't interested? I would love to own an amphibious car!! Or is it that it's not feasible to make one for a reasonable price? Will the electric engine change anything, maybe?
- hollerith 5y ago
  >Steel bodywork rusts, and to prevent rust requires conscientious maintenance. After use in water the Amphicar required greasing at thirteen points including one that required the removal of the rear seat.
  - bambax 5y ago
    That's from the article, which describes the vehicle used by Pres. Johnson. One could hope some progress have been made since then.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Freshwater rust is a non-issue compared to what they put on the road in the winter in some places.
- jamiek88 5y ago
  Seriously though, why? What use is it other than novelty? I mean if you live in Venice maybe?!
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    >> Venice maybe?! Or Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco, New York, London ... basically any city with a harbor and big bridges crossing it. The ability to bypass the line for the bridge and drive a relatively strait line across the harbor to your destination is very appealing. The concept of hundreds, thousands, of tiny commuter boats crisscrossing a busy harbor is not. TopGear staged a race across London, with Clarkson driving by boat. It looks like lots of fun, so long as you are the one rich guy with the fastest boat on the river.
yread 5y ago
I wonder why haven't they used aluminum instead of steel. The Cosmic Muffin is doing fine even after many years https://mikeshouts.com/plane-boat-cosmic-muffin/ https://mikeshouts.com/plane-boat-cosmic-muffin/
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Because it was 1960 and making large sheet metal stampings in aluminum was still expensive enough to mostly only be justifiable in the aerospace industry or if the stamping were very simple such as canoes/skifs and step vans. All of which you will note are made with riveted construction that would be an extra quirk you don't necessarily want if you're selling an already quirky automobile.
  - Johnythree 5y ago
    Plenty of early vehicles DID use alumininium, for example the Landrover. The story goes that after WWII there was no shortage of aluminium sheets or the tooling to work with it.
technothrasher 5y ago
As a Triumph car enthusiast, I've always had my eye on Amphicars since it uses a Triumph engine. But they seemed to languish unloved for many years. It's nice to see them finally noticed as the interesting bit of engineering that they are and their values rise dramatically in the last few years.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  Triumph cars don't languish unloved. They enjoy the affection of a disproportionate amount of rust. One thing my dad taught me was to avoid any English cars - especially older models.
duxup 5y ago
I'm not a car enthusiast, but I certainly can understand the appeal of a car with a silly / fun gimmick like that.
FridayoLeary 5y ago
Back when Presidents could drive.
- mc32 5y ago
  Or go shopping at a major grocery store... It’s more like they are not allowed to for the good of the country. I mean they are no longer living for themselves but are the human manifestation of the office of the executive, so there are some things they are not allowed to do, unless they insist which would irritate their handlers.
peteretep 5y ago
> One of the trips across the English Channel encountered a Force 6 gale and the plucky little Amphicar and her probably not fearless crew found themselves dealing with twenty foot waves. I am pretty sceptical, looking at pictures of it? It sits very low in the water, and presumably is very heavy
jeffreyrogers 5y ago
Anyone know how the seals work around the rotating parts (propellers and axles) to prevent water from getting inside the chassis?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  You have basically three options for that kind of thing, single/multiple lip seals, prop shaft packing and machined grooves to pull the water out (as the shaft rotates, it will leak when not moving). Those options can be employed individually or together single or multiple on a given shaft. For example a commodity submersible sump pump may have 2-4 seals stacked in series to keep water out of the motor and an engine crankshaft typically uses a lip seal paired with machined grooves. Also I'm probably forgetting something so you probably actually have four options. A quick google search doesn't make it clear which ones the amphicar uses where.
  - jeffreyrogers 5y ago
    > Also I'm probably forgetting something so you probably actually have four options. I looked into this some more and there is a forth option! A dripless shaft seal (there are different names for this as well) uses a collar that rotates with the prop shaft and a graphite or carbon stator that presses against the collar. The graphite stator is self lubricating (seawater works as a lubricant as well) so its supposed to require very little maintenance. Here's an article that explains it pretty well: https://www.passagemaker.com/technical/troubleshooter-understanding-shaft-seals https://www.passagemaker.com/technical/troubleshooter-unders...
  - jeffreyrogers 5y ago
    Thanks, this is very interesting.
Johnythree 5y ago
I'm surprised that there isn't a mention of "HalfSafe", a WWII amphibious jeep which made it's way around the world, and is now on display in Perth, Western Australia. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=halfsafe&tbm=isch https://www.google.com.au/search?q=halfsafe&tbm=isch and see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Carlin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Carlin There's a wonderful book of halfsafe's adventure, https://www.stellabooks.com/storage/images/stock/1317/1317772.JPG https://www.stellabooks.com/storage/images/stock/1317/131777...

30 points by samclemens 5y ago

This reminds me of the duck tours of sf. I never took one but always saw these behind the ATT stadium! I just looked up and looks like they closed permanently!

psim1 5y ago
I loved the ducky tour of Montreal, driving through the historic old city and into the St. Laurence River for the second half of the tour. Other than these bus-boats I have never seen a civilian amphibious vehicle.
ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
Those things are notorious death traps.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  What are people expecting? They're 75yo vehicles who's capacity and seaworthiness were defined relative to very different cultural norms regarding safety and a national emergency that necessitated acceptance of some additional risk. Heck, the base truck chassis would be a workplace injury lawsuit waiting to happen by modern standards. Other than the one that capsized in Missouri a few years back the Wikipedia page listing fatal accidents is surprisingly devoid of sinkings.
  - MisterTea 5y ago
    > What are people expecting? A safe experience. There is always risk involved but floating things are a solved problem. > They're 75yo vehicles who's capacity and seaworthiness were defined relative to very different cultural norms regarding safety and a national emergency that necessitated acceptance of some additional risk. Duck boats are antiquated military vehicles which are modified by their owners via cutting them in half and extending them. One owner did the work himself with little to no experience in that area with zero engineering oversight. Basically the guy winged it and people died.

eminemence 5y ago

That cutaway drawing is very nice. Is there a site where all such 60s-70s cutaway drawings are listed?

yread 5y ago
There are a lot on reddit.com/r/ThingsCutInHalfPorn

bambax 5y ago

I don't understand why amphibious vehicles never seem to take off. There are regular attempts but the companies usually close shop after the first few years. Why is that? Is it that people aren't interested? I would love to own an amphibious car!! Or is it that it's not feasible to make one for a reasonable price? Will the electric engine change anything, maybe?

hollerith 5y ago
>Steel bodywork rusts, and to prevent rust requires conscientious maintenance. After use in water the Amphicar required greasing at thirteen points including one that required the removal of the rear seat.
- bambax 5y ago
  That's from the article, which describes the vehicle used by Pres. Johnson. One could hope some progress have been made since then.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Freshwater rust is a non-issue compared to what they put on the road in the winter in some places.
jamiek88 5y ago
Seriously though, why? What use is it other than novelty? I mean if you live in Venice maybe?!
- sandworm101 5y ago
  >> Venice maybe?! Or Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco, New York, London ... basically any city with a harbor and big bridges crossing it. The ability to bypass the line for the bridge and drive a relatively strait line across the harbor to your destination is very appealing. The concept of hundreds, thousands, of tiny commuter boats crisscrossing a busy harbor is not. TopGear staged a race across London, with Clarkson driving by boat. It looks like lots of fun, so long as you are the one rich guy with the fastest boat on the river.

yread 5y ago

I wonder why haven't they used aluminum instead of steel. The Cosmic Muffin is doing fine even after many years https://mikeshouts.com/plane-boat-cosmic-muffin/ https://mikeshouts.com/plane-boat-cosmic-muffin/

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Because it was 1960 and making large sheet metal stampings in aluminum was still expensive enough to mostly only be justifiable in the aerospace industry or if the stamping were very simple such as canoes/skifs and step vans. All of which you will note are made with riveted construction that would be an extra quirk you don't necessarily want if you're selling an already quirky automobile.
- Johnythree 5y ago
  Plenty of early vehicles DID use alumininium, for example the Landrover. The story goes that after WWII there was no shortage of aluminium sheets or the tooling to work with it.

technothrasher 5y ago

As a Triumph car enthusiast, I've always had my eye on Amphicars since it uses a Triumph engine. But they seemed to languish unloved for many years. It's nice to see them finally noticed as the interesting bit of engineering that they are and their values rise dramatically in the last few years.

FridayoLeary 5y ago
Triumph cars don't languish unloved. They enjoy the affection of a disproportionate amount of rust. One thing my dad taught me was to avoid any English cars - especially older models.

duxup 5y ago

I'm not a car enthusiast, but I certainly can understand the appeal of a car with a silly / fun gimmick like that.

FridayoLeary 5y ago

Back when Presidents could drive.

mc32 5y ago
Or go shopping at a major grocery store... It’s more like they are not allowed to for the good of the country. I mean they are no longer living for themselves but are the human manifestation of the office of the executive, so there are some things they are not allowed to do, unless they insist which would irritate their handlers.

peteretep 5y ago

> One of the trips across the English Channel encountered a Force 6 gale and the plucky little Amphicar and her probably not fearless crew found themselves dealing with twenty foot waves. I am pretty sceptical, looking at pictures of it? It sits very low in the water, and presumably is very heavy

jeffreyrogers 5y ago

Anyone know how the seals work around the rotating parts (propellers and axles) to prevent water from getting inside the chassis?

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
You have basically three options for that kind of thing, single/multiple lip seals, prop shaft packing and machined grooves to pull the water out (as the shaft rotates, it will leak when not moving). Those options can be employed individually or together single or multiple on a given shaft. For example a commodity submersible sump pump may have 2-4 seals stacked in series to keep water out of the motor and an engine crankshaft typically uses a lip seal paired with machined grooves. Also I'm probably forgetting something so you probably actually have four options. A quick google search doesn't make it clear which ones the amphicar uses where.
- jeffreyrogers 5y ago
  > Also I'm probably forgetting something so you probably actually have four options. I looked into this some more and there is a forth option! A dripless shaft seal (there are different names for this as well) uses a collar that rotates with the prop shaft and a graphite or carbon stator that presses against the collar. The graphite stator is self lubricating (seawater works as a lubricant as well) so its supposed to require very little maintenance. Here's an article that explains it pretty well: https://www.passagemaker.com/technical/troubleshooter-understanding-shaft-seals https://www.passagemaker.com/technical/troubleshooter-unders...
- jeffreyrogers 5y ago
  Thanks, this is very interesting.

Johnythree 5y ago

I'm surprised that there isn't a mention of "HalfSafe", a WWII amphibious jeep which made it's way around the world, and is now on display in Perth, Western Australia. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=halfsafe&tbm=isch https://www.google.com.au/search?q=halfsafe&tbm=isch and see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Carlin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Carlin There's a wonderful book of halfsafe's adventure, https://www.stellabooks.com/storage/images/stock/1317/1317772.JPG https://www.stellabooks.com/storage/images/stock/1317/131777...