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Does it ever quit the app? I don't think it does. And it never leaves the app running with no UI either, because the menu is part of the UI, and it's still run

Does it ever quit the app? I don't think it does. And it never leaves the app running with no UI either, because the menu is part of the UI, and it's still running. This is probably not obvious if you're not used to macOS, but that's a bad reason not to do things this way IMHO. It's completely obvious to me. The red dot closes windows. All three coloured dots are window commands. Not that I use them much, I use Moom for window sizing and Cmd-W to close windows and tab (Shift-Cmd-W to close a window full of tabs). But that's just me: the dots are there if you want to use them, and what they do is completely consistent. You're not used to what they do, but that's not the same thing.

oneeyedpigeon 5y ago
Some apps definitely do behave the 'closing the last window closes the app' way, although this is obviously bad from a consistency point of view. > the menu is part of the UI I would argue that that global menu is not part of the application's UI. True, it's application-specific, but it's very easy for a novice user to miss the context switch and just be left with the impression that the app is some kind of 'phantom'.
- samatman 5y ago
  It's not really up for debate, the menu is part of an application's UI in macOS, that is, part of the Interface which the User uses to interact with the application. I assume you're right about a novice user, I haven't been one in many years. That's why the name of the application is always directly to the right of the apple icon, that tells you which application is in focus, and all the menu items next to it are application-specific. The global part of the menu is just that apple icon, and the menu tray off further to the right. Can you point me to an example of a macOS app which closes when the last window is closed? I literally can't think of one.
  - oneeyedpigeon 5y ago
    > It's not really up for debate I'll let it go because it's not a very interesting debate and it's not the main point anyway. I haven't been a novice user for ~10 years, but I can still remember what it was like moving from Windows to MacOS — quite confusing! > Can you point me to an example of a macOS app which closes when the last window is closed? Calculator
- Tagbert 5y ago
  Most apps that close when the windows closes are not document-oriented apps. For them, there is only one window and one function. The calculator app you mention is a good example. Once you close that window the app has no other purpose it is setup to auto-close the app. Document-oriented apps expect that, after you close the document, you might want to open another one or start a new document. Documents <> Apps

oneeyedpigeon 5y ago

Some apps definitely do behave the 'closing the last window closes the app' way, although this is obviously bad from a consistency point of view. > the menu is part of the UI I would argue that that global menu is not part of the application's UI. True, it's application-specific, but it's very easy for a novice user to miss the context switch and just be left with the impression that the app is some kind of 'phantom'.

samatman 5y ago
It's not really up for debate, the menu is part of an application's UI in macOS, that is, part of the Interface which the User uses to interact with the application. I assume you're right about a novice user, I haven't been one in many years. That's why the name of the application is always directly to the right of the apple icon, that tells you which application is in focus, and all the menu items next to it are application-specific. The global part of the menu is just that apple icon, and the menu tray off further to the right. Can you point me to an example of a macOS app which closes when the last window is closed? I literally can't think of one.
- oneeyedpigeon 5y ago
  > It's not really up for debate I'll let it go because it's not a very interesting debate and it's not the main point anyway. I haven't been a novice user for ~10 years, but I can still remember what it was like moving from Windows to MacOS — quite confusing! > Can you point me to an example of a macOS app which closes when the last window is closed? Calculator
Tagbert 5y ago
Most apps that close when the windows closes are not document-oriented apps. For them, there is only one window and one function. The calculator app you mention is a good example. Once you close that window the app has no other purpose it is setup to auto-close the app. Document-oriented apps expect that, after you close the document, you might want to open another one or start a new document. Documents <> Apps