3 ms·

Someone should conduct a study of businesses that close because of crime, in particular those destroyed during the riots of last year, to see which come back. I

Someone should conduct a study of businesses that close because of crime, in particular those destroyed during the riots of last year, to see which come back. I'm surprised a company like Walgreens had not done this sooner, given the breakdown of law and order in San Francisco

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
wildrhythms 5y ago
"Law and order" has never, and will never address the material conditions that drives a person to shoplifting.
- decremental 5y ago
  It isn't meant to. It's meant in large part to deter people from negatively impacting society and making otherwise good places to live deteriorate into shitholes. Which is what happens to those places when leniency and misutilized compassion allows for crimes to be committed against the citizenry with little or no recourse. It's that mindset that leads to the bizarre policies that plague many parts of the country. It would be great if we somehow found a way to ensure that everyone had every need fulfilled. However, that is orthogonal to the issue of what to do when a person has crossed the line we've drawn in the sand for what is acceptable in a safe society.
- anthonygd 5y ago
  Not everyone who shoplifts was "driven" to shoplift. Some people simply decide they'd rather keep their money and the product. After you remove "law and order" that actually becomes the most rational individual decision.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  I've known many middle and working class white girls that shoplifted for fun. Most guys I've known to do it did it at gas stations or for small items and we're predominantly working class or lower.
  - phobosanomaly 5y ago
    The sources in the linked article seem to suggest that the San Francisco Walgreens are not being driven from business due to an overabundance of middle and working-class white girls shoplifting for fun. Although the parent to your comment did seem to be generalizing quite a bit from the article at hand, and so perhaps your response deviated in kind. Fair enough, I'm making the argument anyway. I have no doubt that the phenomenon you mention certainly exists. I do, however question whether its prevalence is enough to be noticeable on an income statement. There seems to be something else at work in San Francisco, and the question is how we should contextualize it morally (which will influence our preferred policy approach as voters). Is it people stealing because they are desperate for the necessities that one would encounter at a drugstore (something we should feel sorry about). Or, are they organized crime rings making a quick buck at someone else's expense due to loopholes in the legal system (something we should be pissed off about). I alternate between the two perspectives based on my own experiences viewing urban poverty up-close, the discussions shared in the HN Walgreens threads, as well as some of the videos shared of organized groups of people clearly looting high-value items. It's something I don't really have a solidly-formed opinion on, and there seems to be an abundance of nuance.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- cafard 5y ago
  In high school I knew kids from comfortable middle-class homes who shoplifted.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

wildrhythms 5y ago

"Law and order" has never, and will never address the material conditions that drives a person to shoplifting.

decremental 5y ago
It isn't meant to. It's meant in large part to deter people from negatively impacting society and making otherwise good places to live deteriorate into shitholes. Which is what happens to those places when leniency and misutilized compassion allows for crimes to be committed against the citizenry with little or no recourse. It's that mindset that leads to the bizarre policies that plague many parts of the country. It would be great if we somehow found a way to ensure that everyone had every need fulfilled. However, that is orthogonal to the issue of what to do when a person has crossed the line we've drawn in the sand for what is acceptable in a safe society.
anthonygd 5y ago
Not everyone who shoplifts was "driven" to shoplift. Some people simply decide they'd rather keep their money and the product. After you remove "law and order" that actually becomes the most rational individual decision.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
I've known many middle and working class white girls that shoplifted for fun. Most guys I've known to do it did it at gas stations or for small items and we're predominantly working class or lower.
- phobosanomaly 5y ago
  The sources in the linked article seem to suggest that the San Francisco Walgreens are not being driven from business due to an overabundance of middle and working-class white girls shoplifting for fun. Although the parent to your comment did seem to be generalizing quite a bit from the article at hand, and so perhaps your response deviated in kind. Fair enough, I'm making the argument anyway. I have no doubt that the phenomenon you mention certainly exists. I do, however question whether its prevalence is enough to be noticeable on an income statement. There seems to be something else at work in San Francisco, and the question is how we should contextualize it morally (which will influence our preferred policy approach as voters). Is it people stealing because they are desperate for the necessities that one would encounter at a drugstore (something we should feel sorry about). Or, are they organized crime rings making a quick buck at someone else's expense due to loopholes in the legal system (something we should be pissed off about). I alternate between the two perspectives based on my own experiences viewing urban poverty up-close, the discussions shared in the HN Walgreens threads, as well as some of the videos shared of organized groups of people clearly looting high-value items. It's something I don't really have a solidly-formed opinion on, and there seems to be an abundance of nuance.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
cafard 5y ago
In high school I knew kids from comfortable middle-class homes who shoplifted.