4 ms·

HOAs hate is a fascinating topic to me. Not because I care/don't care about HOAs themselves, but because it really shows how loud a vocal minority can be. The

by shados 5y ago

HOAs hate is a fascinating topic to me. Not because I care/don't care about HOAs themselves, but because it really shows how loud a vocal minority can be. The usual narrative is the evil HOA trustees who enforce their selfish greedy wants on everyone else and rule with an iron fist. The reality though is that in most HOAs, they have very little discretionary power beyond what's in the bylaws. What's in the bylaws is agreed upon by the owners. If "everyone hates being told what to do", it's pretty simple to get the rules changed or to vote out the trustees. But it doesn't happen. Why? Generally one of three things A) The inhabitants aren't the owners and thus can't change the rules. Ok, fair enough if that's the situation, that's going to suck. B) People hate the rules, but they don't hate them ENOUGH to go through the trouble of changing them, and some people who likes the rules are enforcing them. IMO ignoring rules you don't like shouldn't be an option (and is why we have so many bad laws at all levels of governments. If everyone who hates them got together to change them, not even the super rich could prevent it from happening). C) The most common one from my experience: turns out a whole lot of people actually agree with the rules. All the talk of freedom, but that includes the right of consenting adults to come into a legal agreement about...stuff. As long as nothing they agree on is illegal to put in your contract, why shouldn't they be allowed? If a bunch of people want to sign an agreement to reach a global maximum instead of a bunch of local maxima that make everyone miserable, why not? Turns out not everyone is cool with the "I do whatever I want and you do whatever you want", and "let's get together and make a compromise so we can both be a little happier" is actually fairly popular too. And thus HOAs are a thing. But I hear the reply already: "In X area everything's governed by HOAs! We have no choice!". Well, either change the rules (after all, if they're THAT damn, it shouldn't be too hard to get enough votes to get them changed), or buy elsewhere. We're talking about buying here, so it implies a certain level of privilege, after all.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
>buy elsewhere In my experience discussing the topic, the people who claim there are absolutely no properties anywhere not in an HOA are not very truthful. Similarly, they're also makes outlandish claims about how there is only one job they can do and it's only located in this one city so they have absolutely no choice in the matter. It is simply impossible for them to live anywhere else except in this one town that only has HOA properties. The reality is that they want to live in an HOA but they don't want any of the obligations that come with it. They want their neighbors all bound by the rules but they should be granted exceptions because they're special. Personally I would never live in an HOA with tons of rules and design standards but that's what some people like and are free to join. It's their choice. There are plenty of HOAs that just want you to keep your yard mowed twice a month and not keep junk cars and old appliances outside. It's a continuum but far too many want the surroundings of a strong intrusive HOA and the obligations on them of a weak or non-existent HOA.
- hardolaf 5y ago
  There are entire cities in Texas where every single residential property is covered by a HOA. Some times there literally isn't anywhere with sewer lines without an HOA.
  - shados 5y ago
    If people really hated HOAs that much, that would be an amazing opportunity to make a buck. People in an HOA just vote together to dissolve it. Boom, property value skyrocket as anyone who doesn't want HOAs now can buy one of these elusive properties.
hpoe 5y ago
We will be moving soon, ended up with an HOA, I am currently doing everything in my power to end up on that HOA board to Ron Swanson it up hard, including throwing BBQs for neighbors, making contacts with everyone in the neighborhood and picking up trash. But I didn't want to, I want to spend my life doing other things, but now I've been forced into being a local politician simply because I can't run the risk of some nosy moral (racist) busy-bodies putting a lien on my home because the tree in the front yard died.
- shados 5y ago
  > I am currently doing everything in my power Right, because you have to convince people of what you want. If it was absolutely no brainer obvious and everyone felt the same way as you, you wouldn't have to do that. The election would come up, people would vote and it would be over. You also knew there was an HOA when you got into it. That's my point. People in posts like these make it sound like NO ONE wants this. If it was true, it would be gone pretty quick. Turns out people are generally either happy with the status quo, or at least don't hate it enough to change it without some convincing. Btw, I don't know about your bylaws, but usually you don't have to be on the HOA board to change the rules. If you get the votes you can get them changed. Get a lawyer to write a new set of bylaws as per your state's requirements, get people to vote on them, register them, don't even need to change the board to gut it.
  - hpoe 5y ago
    I've found it's not a matter of "no one wants it" it is a matter of there are only so many hours in a day and most people are focusing on family, or career, or schooling or something else. This is a terrible argument because under this argument everyone really is "okay with the massive warrentless government wiretapping going on because they aren't voting against it." People are "okay with the Chinese genocide of the Uighers because they aren't doing anything to stop it." It's not that they want it that way it's that most people are in the business of living their lives and don't want to constantly have to dedicate their lives to vicious neighborhood politics and so they tolerate it for now because it is a higher barrier to do something about it.

by shados 5y ago

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

>buy elsewhere In my experience discussing the topic, the people who claim there are absolutely no properties anywhere not in an HOA are not very truthful. Similarly, they're also makes outlandish claims about how there is only one job they can do and it's only located in this one city so they have absolutely no choice in the matter. It is simply impossible for them to live anywhere else except in this one town that only has HOA properties. The reality is that they want to live in an HOA but they don't want any of the obligations that come with it. They want their neighbors all bound by the rules but they should be granted exceptions because they're special. Personally I would never live in an HOA with tons of rules and design standards but that's what some people like and are free to join. It's their choice. There are plenty of HOAs that just want you to keep your yard mowed twice a month and not keep junk cars and old appliances outside. It's a continuum but far too many want the surroundings of a strong intrusive HOA and the obligations on them of a weak or non-existent HOA.

hardolaf 5y ago
There are entire cities in Texas where every single residential property is covered by a HOA. Some times there literally isn't anywhere with sewer lines without an HOA.
- shados 5y ago
  If people really hated HOAs that much, that would be an amazing opportunity to make a buck. People in an HOA just vote together to dissolve it. Boom, property value skyrocket as anyone who doesn't want HOAs now can buy one of these elusive properties.

hpoe 5y ago

We will be moving soon, ended up with an HOA, I am currently doing everything in my power to end up on that HOA board to Ron Swanson it up hard, including throwing BBQs for neighbors, making contacts with everyone in the neighborhood and picking up trash. But I didn't want to, I want to spend my life doing other things, but now I've been forced into being a local politician simply because I can't run the risk of some nosy moral (racist) busy-bodies putting a lien on my home because the tree in the front yard died.

shados 5y ago
> I am currently doing everything in my power Right, because you have to convince people of what you want. If it was absolutely no brainer obvious and everyone felt the same way as you, you wouldn't have to do that. The election would come up, people would vote and it would be over. You also knew there was an HOA when you got into it. That's my point. People in posts like these make it sound like NO ONE wants this. If it was true, it would be gone pretty quick. Turns out people are generally either happy with the status quo, or at least don't hate it enough to change it without some convincing. Btw, I don't know about your bylaws, but usually you don't have to be on the HOA board to change the rules. If you get the votes you can get them changed. Get a lawyer to write a new set of bylaws as per your state's requirements, get people to vote on them, register them, don't even need to change the board to gut it.
- hpoe 5y ago
  I've found it's not a matter of "no one wants it" it is a matter of there are only so many hours in a day and most people are focusing on family, or career, or schooling or something else. This is a terrible argument because under this argument everyone really is "okay with the massive warrentless government wiretapping going on because they aren't voting against it." People are "okay with the Chinese genocide of the Uighers because they aren't doing anything to stop it." It's not that they want it that way it's that most people are in the business of living their lives and don't want to constantly have to dedicate their lives to vicious neighborhood politics and so they tolerate it for now because it is a higher barrier to do something about it.