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Is the solution then to legalize such intrusions? It seems like it would be far too difficult to differentiate between beneficial and malevolent operations. It

by nathanb 15y ago

Is the solution then to legalize such intrusions? It seems like it would be far too difficult to differentiate between beneficial and malevolent operations. It would also be extremely difficult for a company to dispute falsified evidence presented by would-be hacktivists. If anon had falsified the HBGary records, would we believe Aaron Barr if he said the data were not correct? How could he suitably prove the non-existence of such data to the public without revealing an inappropriate amount of internal information? I'm not saying such intrusions and releases are not useful or never reveal important information. But it's sort of like a Crime and Punishment situation. Even if the releases reveal important information about government or corporate corruption which would have otherwise gone unchecked, we cannot officially and legally condone these attacks.

saulrh 15y ago
A blanket legalization would be bad, I agree. The best approach that I can think of is to set up a way for these releases to be grounds for a warrant. Instead of releasing those credit card numbers to the internet, you send them to the police along with how you got them; the police verify your method and data (maintaining chain of custody along the way) and proceed to court. There are a few improvements to this method. One would be to fine corporations with poor data security, then using the money to reward crackers for bringing poor security to the attention of the police instead of stealing credit cards. Another would be to get the media involved, using freedom-of-the-press and transparency to keep the government honest.
- nathanb 15y ago
  This still doesn't really address your concern about the government, however. And even though at some point in our future it will likely become important (assuming it isn't so already) for the individual to be able to have some sort of recourse against increasingly rapacious and legally invulnerable corporations, the idea of legally condoning the sort of attacks and breaches we've seen recently still seems a bit too wild-west for my tastes.
  - saulrh 15y ago
    The second half of that was pretty much what I was getting at; I was presenting a way for people to legally demonstrate that a corporation or government entity is breaking the law. If the government changes the laws to make its spying legal (coughpatriotactcough) the only real solution is for the average user to stop being an idiot long enough to learn, use, and demand good crypto.

by nathanb 15y ago

saulrh 15y ago

A blanket legalization would be bad, I agree. The best approach that I can think of is to set up a way for these releases to be grounds for a warrant. Instead of releasing those credit card numbers to the internet, you send them to the police along with how you got them; the police verify your method and data (maintaining chain of custody along the way) and proceed to court. There are a few improvements to this method. One would be to fine corporations with poor data security, then using the money to reward crackers for bringing poor security to the attention of the police instead of stealing credit cards. Another would be to get the media involved, using freedom-of-the-press and transparency to keep the government honest.

nathanb 15y ago
This still doesn't really address your concern about the government, however. And even though at some point in our future it will likely become important (assuming it isn't so already) for the individual to be able to have some sort of recourse against increasingly rapacious and legally invulnerable corporations, the idea of legally condoning the sort of attacks and breaches we've seen recently still seems a bit too wild-west for my tastes.
- saulrh 15y ago
  The second half of that was pretty much what I was getting at; I was presenting a way for people to legally demonstrate that a corporation or government entity is breaking the law. If the government changes the laws to make its spying legal (coughpatriotactcough) the only real solution is for the average user to stop being an idiot long enough to learn, use, and demand good crypto.