5 ms·

Americans love things that keep the "undesirable" people out. HOAs are basically just white gatekeepers. They're legally backed rackets in every instance I've e

Americans love things that keep the "undesirable" people out. HOAs are basically just white gatekeepers. They're legally backed rackets in every instance I've ever had to interact with them.

jacob2484 5y ago
Please elaborate on how they keep "undesirable" people out - a statement like this has no meaning without any evidence. The HOA is not involved in the purchase of a house in any way.
- jtbayly 5y ago
  My HOA has rules designed to prevent blue collar people from living in the neighborhood. No work icons on any vehicle parked outside a garage.
  - shakezula 5y ago
    Yup! In a similar vein: My old HOA didn't allow you to have vehicles parked on your own driveway after 6pm until 6am.
    - jtbayly 5y ago
      So, no families allowed. Only singles and couples.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  They can't keep you from moving in, but once you do, they can nickel and dime you with fines and make your life miserable until you move out.
  - shakezula 5y ago
    And they absolutely will. After I moved out of my last HOA, I found out the towing company had a flat rate kickback to the HOA organization for every tow they made. Genuinely baffles me how it's even legal.
- shakezula 5y ago
  Most HOAs have enough legalese baked into them that they can even hold eviction over tenants heads. It's absolutely a class weapon that gets used as a bludgeon. And if they can't technically evict you, they sure can make your life hell until you leave. Selective enforcement is the name of the game with these types.
  - midasuni 5y ago
    American Dad covered this - Roger decided to get back at Stan so corrupted the HOA and did all sorts of things like arranging trash pickup, installing a hydrant on his lawn, etc. If the HOA don’t like you, it seems there little recourse.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Master_Odin 5y ago
  The HOA can not restrict purchase sure, but can specifically target PoC for "violations" while ignoring the white households who are committing violations. This has the effect of working to force these folks out and maintaining the racial status quo of the HOA. In the 70s (I think) and before, HOA were definitely active gatekeepers though against PoC, and then after that with new laws passed, moved to these more "subtle" methods.
rickspencer3 5y ago
This does not match my personal experience. I live in a 10,000 person neighborhood that is covered by an HOA, and it is a very diverse place. In fact, one of the things that I like about living here is that there are people from all over the world living here.
- shakezula 5y ago
  I'm genuinely glad that is the experience you've had. I hope that model would be the one that's more common. Unfortunately in my experience it's the exact opposite. Here they're used and abused by exclusively rich, mostly-white neighborhoods to keep them that way.
  - eplanit 5y ago
    You may be conflating class and race (it's a common error). A neighborhood of wealthier, successful people (regardless of race) probably want their neighborhood to be a quieter, nice-looking, pleasant place. I've lived in both HOA and non-HOA neighborhoods. If there's a barrier to entry such as price, then generally a more successful (and hopefully more refined) type of person will move in, and generally the homes will stay nice-looking without rules. Without that, then an HOA to try to maintain an aesthetic baseline can be very helpful. All the homeowners benefit from maintaining an attractive neighborhood, in that their home values will be higher.
    - rickspencer3 5y ago
      This matches my experience. Our neighborhood is rich in a mix of housing. There are large apartment buildings with small, relatively affordable apartments, townhouse of 2 sizes, and then single family homes that run from large to very large. I assume that the many people who own one-bedroom condos are just as interested as the people who own the six-bedroom houses in keeping the common areas well maintained.
    - shakezula 5y ago
      I'm not conflating class and race, I'm establishing a connection between the two. I'm very aware that it's generally a "rich" thing. That doesn't mean that race plays no factor, and even then, if it's purely a class issue then it's still an issue in my eyes.
barbazoo 5y ago
How do they keep people out? The HOA wouldn't prevent someone from "buying in" would they? It's not that there is an interview process, is there?
- Gibbon1 5y ago
  That was the original reason for HOA's. After the supreme court ruled racial covenants were unenforceable the idea was that HOA's could enforce them.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    How though? Many people seem to claim that that's what's being done, I'm wondering how.
    - Gibbon1 5y ago
      The HOA's had rules that black and other undesirables weren't allowed. Enforceable since HOA's were a private associations. However the supreme court also ruled that was unenforceable too. But that didn't happen before developers realized that they could use HOA's as a cash cow. You sell a house once. But you can collect HOA dues for a couple of decades after. There is a case in Daily City where it took decades for home owners to get rid of the HOA. That collected dues and provided absolutely nothing in return.

Americans love things that keep the "undesirable" people out. HOAs are basically just white gatekeepers. They're legally backed rackets in every instance I've ever had to interact with them.

jacob2484 5y ago

Please elaborate on how they keep "undesirable" people out - a statement like this has no meaning without any evidence. The HOA is not involved in the purchase of a house in any way.

jtbayly 5y ago
My HOA has rules designed to prevent blue collar people from living in the neighborhood. No work icons on any vehicle parked outside a garage.
- shakezula 5y ago
  Yup! In a similar vein: My old HOA didn't allow you to have vehicles parked on your own driveway after 6pm until 6am.
  - jtbayly 5y ago
    So, no families allowed. Only singles and couples.
josephcsible 5y ago
They can't keep you from moving in, but once you do, they can nickel and dime you with fines and make your life miserable until you move out.
- shakezula 5y ago
  And they absolutely will. After I moved out of my last HOA, I found out the towing company had a flat rate kickback to the HOA organization for every tow they made. Genuinely baffles me how it's even legal.
shakezula 5y ago
Most HOAs have enough legalese baked into them that they can even hold eviction over tenants heads. It's absolutely a class weapon that gets used as a bludgeon. And if they can't technically evict you, they sure can make your life hell until you leave. Selective enforcement is the name of the game with these types.
- midasuni 5y ago
  American Dad covered this - Roger decided to get back at Stan so corrupted the HOA and did all sorts of things like arranging trash pickup, installing a hydrant on his lawn, etc. If the HOA don’t like you, it seems there little recourse.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Master_Odin 5y ago
The HOA can not restrict purchase sure, but can specifically target PoC for "violations" while ignoring the white households who are committing violations. This has the effect of working to force these folks out and maintaining the racial status quo of the HOA. In the 70s (I think) and before, HOA were definitely active gatekeepers though against PoC, and then after that with new laws passed, moved to these more "subtle" methods.

rickspencer3 5y ago

This does not match my personal experience. I live in a 10,000 person neighborhood that is covered by an HOA, and it is a very diverse place. In fact, one of the things that I like about living here is that there are people from all over the world living here.

shakezula 5y ago
I'm genuinely glad that is the experience you've had. I hope that model would be the one that's more common. Unfortunately in my experience it's the exact opposite. Here they're used and abused by exclusively rich, mostly-white neighborhoods to keep them that way.
- eplanit 5y ago
  You may be conflating class and race (it's a common error). A neighborhood of wealthier, successful people (regardless of race) probably want their neighborhood to be a quieter, nice-looking, pleasant place. I've lived in both HOA and non-HOA neighborhoods. If there's a barrier to entry such as price, then generally a more successful (and hopefully more refined) type of person will move in, and generally the homes will stay nice-looking without rules. Without that, then an HOA to try to maintain an aesthetic baseline can be very helpful. All the homeowners benefit from maintaining an attractive neighborhood, in that their home values will be higher.
  - rickspencer3 5y ago
    This matches my experience. Our neighborhood is rich in a mix of housing. There are large apartment buildings with small, relatively affordable apartments, townhouse of 2 sizes, and then single family homes that run from large to very large. I assume that the many people who own one-bedroom condos are just as interested as the people who own the six-bedroom houses in keeping the common areas well maintained.
  - shakezula 5y ago
    I'm not conflating class and race, I'm establishing a connection between the two. I'm very aware that it's generally a "rich" thing. That doesn't mean that race plays no factor, and even then, if it's purely a class issue then it's still an issue in my eyes.

barbazoo 5y ago

How do they keep people out? The HOA wouldn't prevent someone from "buying in" would they? It's not that there is an interview process, is there?

Gibbon1 5y ago
That was the original reason for HOA's. After the supreme court ruled racial covenants were unenforceable the idea was that HOA's could enforce them.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  How though? Many people seem to claim that that's what's being done, I'm wondering how.
  - Gibbon1 5y ago
    The HOA's had rules that black and other undesirables weren't allowed. Enforceable since HOA's were a private associations. However the supreme court also ruled that was unenforceable too. But that didn't happen before developers realized that they could use HOA's as a cash cow. You sell a house once. But you can collect HOA dues for a couple of decades after. There is a case in Daily City where it took decades for home owners to get rid of the HOA. That collected dues and provided absolutely nothing in return.