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I don't know. It isn't that I think targeted ads are bad. I think it is simply jarring that humans are that quantifiable, and separately, that I am skeptical of

I don't know. It isn't that I think targeted ads are bad. I think it is simply jarring that humans are that quantifiable, and separately, that I am skeptical of the privacy policies of the gatherers of this data. My Instagram feed shows me lots of startup clothing companies for young to middle aged men, and I finally tried some, and damnit if they aren't decent jeans. If we accept that ads are not inherently evil, and we accept that ads (when not manipulative or selling unethical/addictive products) are more beneficial to a recipient if they're relevant, then targeting (if done ethically and stored as anonymously as possible) is a great thing. I find that the ads are actually more straightforward than traditional ads. They literally say "These jeans are stylish, durable and American-made". I didn't sit through 30 seconds of Brett Favre throwing a football to signal that I'm just like him.

alkonaut 5y ago
I think they are bad if they use context I didn’t want to provide. I’d be happy to give any website a pretty detailed profile of interests and “cohort” if I knew that’s where it stopped. But I don’t think ads can target ethically and with respect for privacy. I’d love to be proven wrong.
tfehring 5y ago
I'm also not opposed to targeting in principle, and in fact I'd love to reach an end state where a company - whether you call it an ad company or otherwise - does 98% of my shopping for me. But I feel like we're in an uncanny valley in which adtechs are hoovering up more data than they'd even need to do that, but with no incentive to push consumers toward products we'll actually be happy with. Facebook is probably better off if your new jeans wear out in a few months, and Amazon can't even be trusted to reliably ship you the products they think they're shipping you, let alone vouch for their quality.
tweetle_beetle 5y ago
I don't like this assumption that we all have piles of disposable cash (or credit) - our main concern is the struggle to find the right "fit" for using it and therefore targeted ads are improving our lives. Due to the size of the global economy, there are many more products that fit you than you could ever buy. It can only be considered "a great thing" as a response to an earlier status quo, but it's not one in and of itself. Taken to its logical conclusion, in a world where you can encounter dozens of targeted ads in a day, what happens when every single one you is a fantastic fit for you? It's surely not "a great thing" for mental health to have things you truly desire shown to you at a frequency faster than you can afford them, especially in a world where credit loophole agencies like Klarna prey on the vulnerable. And this isn't even opening the data privacy can of worms which is required to achieve that, or the fact that these platforms are competitive and reward the highest spender for any given perfect fit. At least let's try to stave off the dystopian future for a little while longer and hold on to the notion that consumerism doesn't have to be optimised into ever more efficient workflows. Even if you enjoy shopping, doesn't this take out some of the excitement and satisfaction? How long now before some unknown third party is monitoring your spending habits to deduce your payday, sells that information to another third party that buys data from a smart speaker company which overheard you discussing jeans in a public place and automatically sends a message selling the lead to the highest bidding jeans shop who has the product in stock in the waist size which is available from another this party and your virtual assistant puts an event in your calendar telling you to be at home to receive it?

alkonaut 5y ago

I think they are bad if they use context I didn’t want to provide. I’d be happy to give any website a pretty detailed profile of interests and “cohort” if I knew that’s where it stopped. But I don’t think ads can target ethically and with respect for privacy. I’d love to be proven wrong.

tfehring 5y ago

I'm also not opposed to targeting in principle, and in fact I'd love to reach an end state where a company - whether you call it an ad company or otherwise - does 98% of my shopping for me. But I feel like we're in an uncanny valley in which adtechs are hoovering up more data than they'd even need to do that, but with no incentive to push consumers toward products we'll actually be happy with. Facebook is probably better off if your new jeans wear out in a few months, and Amazon can't even be trusted to reliably ship you the products they think they're shipping you, let alone vouch for their quality.

tweetle_beetle 5y ago

I don't like this assumption that we all have piles of disposable cash (or credit) - our main concern is the struggle to find the right "fit" for using it and therefore targeted ads are improving our lives. Due to the size of the global economy, there are many more products that fit you than you could ever buy. It can only be considered "a great thing" as a response to an earlier status quo, but it's not one in and of itself. Taken to its logical conclusion, in a world where you can encounter dozens of targeted ads in a day, what happens when every single one you is a fantastic fit for you? It's surely not "a great thing" for mental health to have things you truly desire shown to you at a frequency faster than you can afford them, especially in a world where credit loophole agencies like Klarna prey on the vulnerable. And this isn't even opening the data privacy can of worms which is required to achieve that, or the fact that these platforms are competitive and reward the highest spender for any given perfect fit. At least let's try to stave off the dystopian future for a little while longer and hold on to the notion that consumerism doesn't have to be optimised into ever more efficient workflows. Even if you enjoy shopping, doesn't this take out some of the excitement and satisfaction? How long now before some unknown third party is monitoring your spending habits to deduce your payday, sells that information to another third party that buys data from a smart speaker company which overheard you discussing jeans in a public place and automatically sends a message selling the lead to the highest bidding jeans shop who has the product in stock in the waist size which is available from another this party and your virtual assistant puts an event in your calendar telling you to be at home to receive it?