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I don't mind to examine the full dataset if they are available. And the report is kind of only 20ish pages, excluding the references and covers. After rereadin

I don't mind to examine the full dataset if they are available. And the report is kind of only 20ish pages, excluding the references and covers. After rereading as you suggested, it also said 'Urumqi is also a Han-majority city .... In 2018, the city’s birth-rate grew by about 25 percent compared to the pre-2017 baseline, from 8.5 births per thousand people to 12 per thousand.' So at the same time Han in Urumqi were having 8.5 per 1000 birth, Minorities in Kashgar were having 68 per 1000 birthrate. If that's anything, I'd say the CCP is genociding Han Chinese for selectively enforcing the policy. I think the act to list only percentages without listing exact number is dubious, and I am confident the pattern would be similar.

chitowneats 5y ago
Now you're comparing apples to oranges, in addition to cherry picking. You're comparing birth rates of a major city full of unmarried Han who have been lured to the area by government incentives and other work arrangements, to a predominantly rural area. Those birth rates will always be divergent; anywhere in China, and most of the rest of the world. The part about Han being purposely incentivized to move to Xinjiang is explained in section 5 of the report. The report does not dispute that Uyghur birth rates were higher relative to Han Chinese in the past. It makes a convincing case that Uyghurs are being targeted now, at the same time birth control policies are being loosened in Han Chinese parts of the country. That policy discrepancy is intentional, and we should expect it to continue unless we speak out against it. Finally, we can agree that the Chinese government is also evil for controlling the births of Han Chinese and ruining life for generations of their own people who had to contend with the CCP's signature and unique natal authoritarianism.
- beaunative 5y ago
  You have a love for fruit, don't you? But that's not apples and oranges, nor are they cherries. That's the most specific data you can find in that report on the actual birth rate. You're more than welcome to share more data and maybe we can examine.
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    The actual data is public record. Official from the Chinese government. It's linked in the Methodology appendix on page 28 of the report. I copied it here for you since it seems you haven't made it that far yet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dH-GMlRZ8Kc1Lp5or5vSM1K0mGRCY5Uh3SjpnzKzO5I/edit#gid=278635306 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dH-GMlRZ8Kc1Lp5or5vS... Understandable considering you were confused about the report only being "20ish pages". As for the fruit: Yes, what a wonderful bounty you've brought for us on this fine Memorial Day.
    - beaunative 5y ago
      It's really wonderful for you to link the dataset here. I think neither of us would have the time to compile the dataset manually. Admittedly and regrettably I didn't check the appendix. So the conclusion was from Xinjiang's 2017 and 2018 birthrate, which respectively as included was 15.88 and 10.69, so that's where the 50% drop came from. However, the same index for China overall was 12.43 and 10.94, where we see around 20% drop. I don't think it can be categorically concluded it's some racially-motivated policy. (whether it's a good policy or bad is a whole different matter.)
      - chitowneats 5y ago
        So to summarize our discussion: Me: Here’s an article about this report. You: The press is misrepresenting the abstract. Me: Nope. Here’s the full report. You: The report draws the wrong conclusions. Besides, they don’t even share the dataset. Me: Nope. Here’s the dataset linked in the report. You: The data show that Xinjiang birth rates declined 30% more than they did in the rest of China. As you can see I was right all along. I’m curious how you managed to make this journey. It doesn’t seem like you’ve been participating in this discussion in good faith, frankly. I could be wrong though. In that case, I would recommend you actually read what people are trying to show you before attempting to criticize it. You are clearly working backwards from your priors.
        beaunative 5y ago

chitowneats 5y ago

Now you're comparing apples to oranges, in addition to cherry picking. You're comparing birth rates of a major city full of unmarried Han who have been lured to the area by government incentives and other work arrangements, to a predominantly rural area. Those birth rates will always be divergent; anywhere in China, and most of the rest of the world. The part about Han being purposely incentivized to move to Xinjiang is explained in section 5 of the report. The report does not dispute that Uyghur birth rates were higher relative to Han Chinese in the past. It makes a convincing case that Uyghurs are being targeted now, at the same time birth control policies are being loosened in Han Chinese parts of the country. That policy discrepancy is intentional, and we should expect it to continue unless we speak out against it. Finally, we can agree that the Chinese government is also evil for controlling the births of Han Chinese and ruining life for generations of their own people who had to contend with the CCP's signature and unique natal authoritarianism.

beaunative 5y ago
You have a love for fruit, don't you? But that's not apples and oranges, nor are they cherries. That's the most specific data you can find in that report on the actual birth rate. You're more than welcome to share more data and maybe we can examine.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  The actual data is public record. Official from the Chinese government. It's linked in the Methodology appendix on page 28 of the report. I copied it here for you since it seems you haven't made it that far yet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dH-GMlRZ8Kc1Lp5or5vSM1K0mGRCY5Uh3SjpnzKzO5I/edit#gid=278635306 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dH-GMlRZ8Kc1Lp5or5vS... Understandable considering you were confused about the report only being "20ish pages". As for the fruit: Yes, what a wonderful bounty you've brought for us on this fine Memorial Day.
  - beaunative 5y ago
    It's really wonderful for you to link the dataset here. I think neither of us would have the time to compile the dataset manually. Admittedly and regrettably I didn't check the appendix. So the conclusion was from Xinjiang's 2017 and 2018 birthrate, which respectively as included was 15.88 and 10.69, so that's where the 50% drop came from. However, the same index for China overall was 12.43 and 10.94, where we see around 20% drop. I don't think it can be categorically concluded it's some racially-motivated policy. (whether it's a good policy or bad is a whole different matter.)
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      So to summarize our discussion: Me: Here’s an article about this report. You: The press is misrepresenting the abstract. Me: Nope. Here’s the full report. You: The report draws the wrong conclusions. Besides, they don’t even share the dataset. Me: Nope. Here’s the dataset linked in the report. You: The data show that Xinjiang birth rates declined 30% more than they did in the rest of China. As you can see I was right all along. I’m curious how you managed to make this journey. It doesn’t seem like you’ve been participating in this discussion in good faith, frankly. I could be wrong though. In that case, I would recommend you actually read what people are trying to show you before attempting to criticize it. You are clearly working backwards from your priors.
      - beaunative 5y ago