6 ms·

I buy political ads for a living. I can (usually) make an immediate positive return on investment running ads for donations or growing an email list. Been doing

I buy political ads for a living. I can (usually) make an immediate positive return on investment running ads for donations or growing an email list. Been doing this for years and has raised millions for our clients. I have tested and spent money on other platforms none of them work nearly as well for our clients. Search ads work but I believe that's far more of what OP is talking about. If your website is already #1 spot and someone searches to donate they would probably do it already getting there quickly without the ad. The problem is when others or even the same party parent org buys that top spot to get that traffic.

nojito 5y ago
A simple no would have sufficed. No one is arguing that data brokers don't make millions selling ads. The argument verified by the study is that demographic and location segmentation doesn't work when targeting ads.
- tormeh 5y ago
  Demographic and location segmentation is just a shitty way to target and is a prime example of looking for your keys under the lamppost because that's where the light is. That said, your point is unfortunately very relevant because many advertisers still do this.
- stale2002 5y ago
  > A simple no would have sufficed. Actually, I think it is pretty important that they explained that they are an expert in the field, and that you, a not expert, don't really know anything about the space, and thus your opinion is quite literally, not as informed as theirs.
  - nojito 5y ago
    It's a real study with actual data.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  First, I'm talking about better targeting than demo + geo. That's what 'old' media has had for like a century. What works for many D2C and DR advertisers specifically on FB as an example is a combo of: retargeting, customer list upload (using lifetime value e.g. someone who bought many times in past sees more ads), lookalike from those lists. probably wasted a bunch of time but I went ahead and searched some things if you care to learn more. There are a ton of sources showing value of this data and ROI. FB just recently posted this study they did with Group M which is like the biggest media buying conglomerate they touch everything. FB's research is pretty good though obviously they wouldn't publish something totally negative. https://www.facebook.com/business/news/insights/a-full-funnel-approach-how-brand-marketing-drive-short-term-sales https://www.facebook.com/business/news/insights/a-full-funne... Another recent piece surveying marketers showing IG stories have better ROI than Snap (that's our experience by a long shot too) https://archive.is/U0NDu https://archive.is/U0NDu App Install ads are another huge vertical for direct response which drives a ton of revenue. I just looked at Zynga 10-k. quick word search they say from FB, google ads "In 2020, 2019 and 2018 we incurred $583.1 million, $377.2 million and $157.7 million, respectively, of these player acquisition costs." I don't see quickly if they report a direct roi (im sure that would be closely held..) or cost per active user acquired but they do mention a ton how it's revenue driver and list all the risks from iOS privacy changes, and mention risk with more volatile ad market with covid. and privacy/data rules impact Zynga double because they have to pay FB for instance for new users, but then they sell ads in their games. They specifically talk a lot about building up their own 1P data (like FB) to up value on their inventory (or evidently own ad network if they are buying/building one). But the risk is iOS will be blocking a lot of this, and in my experience 'open market' ad exchange 3p data is not even close to as good as FB. and see link about build/buy their own ad network https://investor.zynga.com/static-files/c0a44588-72cb-4e6e-93a3-29cb333af386 https://investor.zynga.com/static-files/c0a44588-72cb-4e6e-9... https://investor.zynga.com/static-files/5b5771d0-52d1-4b91-8381-e86bdf8c8237 https://investor.zynga.com/static-files/5b5771d0-52d1-4b91-8... https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/zynga-is-building-its-own-ad-network-mulling-ma/ https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/zynga-is-buildi... No offense I don't think you know more than they do about their own businesses (and like also questioning mine...). It bugs me that people who don't seem to work in the industry just assume they know better and that these million dollar revenue companies (sometimes billion $) are just throwing their money away because they are what. Stupid?... Like Amazon is another great example of the high value of the type of data apple wants to get rid of. Not many companies will pay $20 for a $10 purchase at any scale. Maybe for Dollar Shave Club type business they do since they have recurring revenue projected. I only found one kind of hit on scholar there aren't any direct response articles easily findable. I can't read this one but the title says "Personalized ads on Facebook: An effective marketing tool for online marketers" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0969698917301509 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09696... and also kind of funny here is one showing FB targeting worked really well for clinical trial recruitment https://www.researchprotocols.org/2018/1/e20 https://www.researchprotocols.org/2018/1/e20
spywaregorilla 5y ago
As someone not familiar with the advertising world, it wouldn't strike me as particularly surprising to learn that political advertising on fb works better than other domains. Not only do people post entire novels on their political opinions, but they're constantly exposed to debates and likely are more likely to feel that the ads are important to react to in the moment.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  I think it's partly the 'housewives' older demographic the people who spend a lot of time on the platform sharing political stuff they read. But mostly it's the data and attention on higher quality ad space. We upload donor data and target that + lookalikes. We can't do that with google anymore, using 3p data on a DSP is both way worse quality data but also wayyyy worse quality ads. twitter never worked for us either.
eyelidlessness 5y ago
I will be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, but I have a hunch that your clients skew conservative. Not based on anything you've said, just based on your apparent success on Facebook as a platform. Would you be willing to confirm or deny that?

nojito 5y ago

A simple no would have sufficed. No one is arguing that data brokers don't make millions selling ads. The argument verified by the study is that demographic and location segmentation doesn't work when targeting ads.

tormeh 5y ago
Demographic and location segmentation is just a shitty way to target and is a prime example of looking for your keys under the lamppost because that's where the light is. That said, your point is unfortunately very relevant because many advertisers still do this.
stale2002 5y ago
> A simple no would have sufficed. Actually, I think it is pretty important that they explained that they are an expert in the field, and that you, a not expert, don't really know anything about the space, and thus your opinion is quite literally, not as informed as theirs.
- nojito 5y ago
  It's a real study with actual data.
dillondoyle 5y ago
First, I'm talking about better targeting than demo + geo. That's what 'old' media has had for like a century. What works for many D2C and DR advertisers specifically on FB as an example is a combo of: retargeting, customer list upload (using lifetime value e.g. someone who bought many times in past sees more ads), lookalike from those lists. probably wasted a bunch of time but I went ahead and searched some things if you care to learn more. There are a ton of sources showing value of this data and ROI. FB just recently posted this study they did with Group M which is like the biggest media buying conglomerate they touch everything. FB's research is pretty good though obviously they wouldn't publish something totally negative. https://www.facebook.com/business/news/insights/a-full-funnel-approach-how-brand-marketing-drive-short-term-sales https://www.facebook.com/business/news/insights/a-full-funne... Another recent piece surveying marketers showing IG stories have better ROI than Snap (that's our experience by a long shot too) https://archive.is/U0NDu https://archive.is/U0NDu App Install ads are another huge vertical for direct response which drives a ton of revenue. I just looked at Zynga 10-k. quick word search they say from FB, google ads "In 2020, 2019 and 2018 we incurred $583.1 million, $377.2 million and $157.7 million, respectively, of these player acquisition costs." I don't see quickly if they report a direct roi (im sure that would be closely held..) or cost per active user acquired but they do mention a ton how it's revenue driver and list all the risks from iOS privacy changes, and mention risk with more volatile ad market with covid. and privacy/data rules impact Zynga double because they have to pay FB for instance for new users, but then they sell ads in their games. They specifically talk a lot about building up their own 1P data (like FB) to up value on their inventory (or evidently own ad network if they are buying/building one). But the risk is iOS will be blocking a lot of this, and in my experience 'open market' ad exchange 3p data is not even close to as good as FB. and see link about build/buy their own ad network https://investor.zynga.com/static-files/c0a44588-72cb-4e6e-93a3-29cb333af386 https://investor.zynga.com/static-files/c0a44588-72cb-4e6e-9... https://investor.zynga.com/static-files/5b5771d0-52d1-4b91-8381-e86bdf8c8237 https://investor.zynga.com/static-files/5b5771d0-52d1-4b91-8... https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/zynga-is-building-its-own-ad-network-mulling-ma/ https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/zynga-is-buildi... No offense I don't think you know more than they do about their own businesses (and like also questioning mine...). It bugs me that people who don't seem to work in the industry just assume they know better and that these million dollar revenue companies (sometimes billion $) are just throwing their money away because they are what. Stupid?... Like Amazon is another great example of the high value of the type of data apple wants to get rid of. Not many companies will pay $20 for a $10 purchase at any scale. Maybe for Dollar Shave Club type business they do since they have recurring revenue projected. I only found one kind of hit on scholar there aren't any direct response articles easily findable. I can't read this one but the title says "Personalized ads on Facebook: An effective marketing tool for online marketers" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0969698917301509 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09696... and also kind of funny here is one showing FB targeting worked really well for clinical trial recruitment https://www.researchprotocols.org/2018/1/e20 https://www.researchprotocols.org/2018/1/e20

spywaregorilla 5y ago

As someone not familiar with the advertising world, it wouldn't strike me as particularly surprising to learn that political advertising on fb works better than other domains. Not only do people post entire novels on their political opinions, but they're constantly exposed to debates and likely are more likely to feel that the ads are important to react to in the moment.

dillondoyle 5y ago
I think it's partly the 'housewives' older demographic the people who spend a lot of time on the platform sharing political stuff they read. But mostly it's the data and attention on higher quality ad space. We upload donor data and target that + lookalikes. We can't do that with google anymore, using 3p data on a DSP is both way worse quality data but also wayyyy worse quality ads. twitter never worked for us either.

eyelidlessness 5y ago

I will be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, but I have a hunch that your clients skew conservative. Not based on anything you've said, just based on your apparent success on Facebook as a platform. Would you be willing to confirm or deny that?