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This is one of those factoids people constantly repeat because it sounds like it would be true. Japan is far easier to immigrate to them most other developed na

This is one of those factoids people constantly repeat because it sounds like it would be true. Japan is far easier to immigrate to them most other developed nations, especially the US, which most on this site will be comparing to. Also it’s very easy for anyone to buy property.

rsj_hn 5y ago
When most people say "immigrate", they are not referring to foreign worker status that allows for long term residency, but actual naturalization. Japan has some pretty high bars and the number of naturalized people is quite small -- about 10,000 per year, and these are primarily Koreans of Japanese descent. The high bar is not the "good moral character" bit (which is also required but that is common) but rather financial stability. So if you are from a wealthy nation and a high earner you will be fine, but that is not the typical immigrant profile, and so for this reason there are very few naturalized immigrants in Japan compared to US or other nations that do not have financial stability as a criteria for naturalization.
- riffraff 5y ago
  > When most people say "immigrate", they are not referring to foreign worker status that allows for long term residency, but actual naturalization. do they? I always thought it referred to long term residency. E.g. I consider myself an immigrant even tho I do not have the citizenship of the country I live in.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    In English at least, "immigration" and "immigrants", refer to permanently moving to a new country, not long term residency or guest worker programs. I.e. you are intending to never return to your original country. If you are intending to return, then you are a long term resident, but not a permanent resident. e.g. Merriam-Webster: "a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence" OED online: "a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country."
    - sixhobbits 5y ago
      This is just playing with grammar. You can live somewhere permanently (in the grammar sense) while on a temporary permit (in the legal sense) and most people who emigrate go through various stages of (legal) temporary permits before being granted permanent residence (eg often requires 5 years of uninterrupted "temporary" residency) or citizenship (often 10-15 years).
    - cedilla 5y ago
      The majority of migrants don't permanently move to a new country. And really, does it make sense to categorize people on their unknowable intention? Especially since this can clash with legal reality. Undocumented migrants sometimes intend to stay permanently, but as soon as immigration laws are enforced, they will leave. And many foreign workers who intend to return to their home country never do so, rendering the distinction moot.
- wenc 5y ago
  > When most people say "immigrate", they are not referring to foreign worker status that allows for long term residency, but actual naturalization. It depends on how the country defines it, but to "immigrate" doesn't generally mean naturalization. Immigration means to obtain permanent residency (in the U.S., a green card or LPR status; in Canada, Australia, NZ, landed immigrant or permanent resident status; in the UK, indefinitely leave to remain). Permanent residency generally confers most rights of citizenship, apart from a few like the right to hold a passport of that country, to vote (exceptions exist), etc. Naturalization means to obtain full citizenship. It's the step that comes after immigration, and it is optional. Not all immigrants elect to naturalize for various reasons (e.g. wanting to keep original citizenship in cases where dual citizenship is prohibited, tax rules, military service, etc.). Some choose to remain permanent residents forever, and they can. It's their choice. And you're right -- if someone has a temporary status like a foreign worker status (even if it's infinitely renewable), that would be considered neither immigration nor naturalization. I'm not sure how things work in Japan, but it is possible for a country to be easy to immigrate into, but hard to naturalize in. These two things can be simultaneously true. (in other words, easy to get permanent resident status, but hard to get citizenship)
  - cedilla 5y ago
    Immigration doesn't imply permanency. Indeed, most migrants don't aim for permanent residency. There is a widespread idea to count permanent migrants only, but in practice, that's impossible to determine in the first place, and has no tangible consequences either. Think about undocumented migrants, who do not have the right to abode, permanent or otherwise. Think about nations that don't offer permanent residency to newly arriving immigrants, or at all. Think about people who already have the right to abode (e.g. a citizen of Ireland in the UK) - are they immigrants without setting foot in the country? Tying migration to a permanent status just doesn't make sense. Indeed, the UN Migration Agency (IOM) defines a migrant as: > any person who is moving or has moved across an international border or within a State away from his/her habitual place of residence, regardless of (1) the person’s legal status; (2) whether the movement is voluntary or involuntary; (3) what the causes for the movement are; or (4) what the length of the stay is.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  You probably meant Japanese residents of Korean descent?
tormeh 5y ago
> This is one of those factoids people constantly repeat because it sounds like it would be true Preventing immigration (both permanent and temporary) has been a political priority in Japan for centuries. Are you saying this has changed recently? The US is a bit special because even with the hurdles it has it still receives a lot of immigrants. Japan, to my knowledge, would never accept being in such a position.
- _game_of_life 5y ago
  I am also surprised but you can check and it does indeed seem the majority (90%+) that apply for citizenship every year are accepted... I would hazard a guess this is because of their population crisis, maybe? They have one of the oldest populations in the world and their birth rate is still less than 1.5. That's a recipe for social and economic disorder, with current levels of automation.
- bluepizza 5y ago
  > Preventing immigration (both permanent and temporary) has been a political priority in Japan for centuries. Implying that the very immigration friendly modern Japanese government is the same as Tokugawa Ieyasu is almost as absurd as implying that Britain is a divorce crazy country due to Henry VIII.
_game_of_life 5y ago
Huh, TIL... Looking at some sources the issue seems to be fairly complex, however it does indeed seem fairly easy relative to other countries like Canada to gain Japanese citizenship (though very few apply). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan#Immigrant_integration_into_Japanese_society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan#Immigrant... Looking at this and other citizenship guides, the main requirements seem to be that: 1. You live and work in Japan for 5 years (not counting student visas) 2. Are the age of majority in your country and over 20 3. Have not broken any laws while in Japan 4. Are able to support yourself financially and are willing to renounce other citizenships It seems that about 90% of people that apply for naturalization are accepted. Yet less than ~10,000 are accepted every year, so applying for citizenship seems unpopular relative to other G7 countries. Neat. I wonder why I was so certain that immigration was next to impossible and only visas were granted?
- novok 5y ago
  Sometimes in immigration, what is written down and what is reality is two different things. Ex: In panama I've heard of legit citizenship applications just rotting on the desk for many years. In a country like japan where it's more by the book, I'm not sure although. To get PR it takes 10 years to 1 year, so that might be a barrier, or maybe it's just a place that doesn't pay well + language barriers and thus wasn't that much of a draw to immigrate to? https://allabout-japan.com/en/article/7143/ https://allabout-japan.com/en/article/7143/
- bluepizza 5y ago
  When requesting naturalization, you have to go through interviews in Japanese, and send a handwritten letter in Japanese as well. That puts a lot of permanent residents off - why go through that when they can already stay indefinitely anyway?
  - slim 5y ago
    I find this selection process fair and efficient
- walrus01 5y ago
eloff 5y ago
Immigrate as in obtain permanent residency.
spookybones 5y ago
Do you know any websites/resources with more info on this?

rsj_hn 5y ago

When most people say "immigrate", they are not referring to foreign worker status that allows for long term residency, but actual naturalization. Japan has some pretty high bars and the number of naturalized people is quite small -- about 10,000 per year, and these are primarily Koreans of Japanese descent. The high bar is not the "good moral character" bit (which is also required but that is common) but rather financial stability. So if you are from a wealthy nation and a high earner you will be fine, but that is not the typical immigrant profile, and so for this reason there are very few naturalized immigrants in Japan compared to US or other nations that do not have financial stability as a criteria for naturalization.

riffraff 5y ago
> When most people say "immigrate", they are not referring to foreign worker status that allows for long term residency, but actual naturalization. do they? I always thought it referred to long term residency. E.g. I consider myself an immigrant even tho I do not have the citizenship of the country I live in.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  In English at least, "immigration" and "immigrants", refer to permanently moving to a new country, not long term residency or guest worker programs. I.e. you are intending to never return to your original country. If you are intending to return, then you are a long term resident, but not a permanent resident. e.g. Merriam-Webster: "a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence" OED online: "a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country."
  - sixhobbits 5y ago
    This is just playing with grammar. You can live somewhere permanently (in the grammar sense) while on a temporary permit (in the legal sense) and most people who emigrate go through various stages of (legal) temporary permits before being granted permanent residence (eg often requires 5 years of uninterrupted "temporary" residency) or citizenship (often 10-15 years).
  - cedilla 5y ago
    The majority of migrants don't permanently move to a new country. And really, does it make sense to categorize people on their unknowable intention? Especially since this can clash with legal reality. Undocumented migrants sometimes intend to stay permanently, but as soon as immigration laws are enforced, they will leave. And many foreign workers who intend to return to their home country never do so, rendering the distinction moot.
wenc 5y ago
> When most people say "immigrate", they are not referring to foreign worker status that allows for long term residency, but actual naturalization. It depends on how the country defines it, but to "immigrate" doesn't generally mean naturalization. Immigration means to obtain permanent residency (in the U.S., a green card or LPR status; in Canada, Australia, NZ, landed immigrant or permanent resident status; in the UK, indefinitely leave to remain). Permanent residency generally confers most rights of citizenship, apart from a few like the right to hold a passport of that country, to vote (exceptions exist), etc. Naturalization means to obtain full citizenship. It's the step that comes after immigration, and it is optional. Not all immigrants elect to naturalize for various reasons (e.g. wanting to keep original citizenship in cases where dual citizenship is prohibited, tax rules, military service, etc.). Some choose to remain permanent residents forever, and they can. It's their choice. And you're right -- if someone has a temporary status like a foreign worker status (even if it's infinitely renewable), that would be considered neither immigration nor naturalization. I'm not sure how things work in Japan, but it is possible for a country to be easy to immigrate into, but hard to naturalize in. These two things can be simultaneously true. (in other words, easy to get permanent resident status, but hard to get citizenship)
- cedilla 5y ago
  Immigration doesn't imply permanency. Indeed, most migrants don't aim for permanent residency. There is a widespread idea to count permanent migrants only, but in practice, that's impossible to determine in the first place, and has no tangible consequences either. Think about undocumented migrants, who do not have the right to abode, permanent or otherwise. Think about nations that don't offer permanent residency to newly arriving immigrants, or at all. Think about people who already have the right to abode (e.g. a citizen of Ireland in the UK) - are they immigrants without setting foot in the country? Tying migration to a permanent status just doesn't make sense. Indeed, the UN Migration Agency (IOM) defines a migrant as: > any person who is moving or has moved across an international border or within a State away from his/her habitual place of residence, regardless of (1) the person’s legal status; (2) whether the movement is voluntary or involuntary; (3) what the causes for the movement are; or (4) what the length of the stay is.
selimthegrim 5y ago
You probably meant Japanese residents of Korean descent?

tormeh 5y ago

> This is one of those factoids people constantly repeat because it sounds like it would be true Preventing immigration (both permanent and temporary) has been a political priority in Japan for centuries. Are you saying this has changed recently? The US is a bit special because even with the hurdles it has it still receives a lot of immigrants. Japan, to my knowledge, would never accept being in such a position.

_game_of_life 5y ago
I am also surprised but you can check and it does indeed seem the majority (90%+) that apply for citizenship every year are accepted... I would hazard a guess this is because of their population crisis, maybe? They have one of the oldest populations in the world and their birth rate is still less than 1.5. That's a recipe for social and economic disorder, with current levels of automation.
bluepizza 5y ago
> Preventing immigration (both permanent and temporary) has been a political priority in Japan for centuries. Implying that the very immigration friendly modern Japanese government is the same as Tokugawa Ieyasu is almost as absurd as implying that Britain is a divorce crazy country due to Henry VIII.

_game_of_life 5y ago

Huh, TIL... Looking at some sources the issue seems to be fairly complex, however it does indeed seem fairly easy relative to other countries like Canada to gain Japanese citizenship (though very few apply). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan#Immigrant_integration_into_Japanese_society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan#Immigrant... Looking at this and other citizenship guides, the main requirements seem to be that: 1. You live and work in Japan for 5 years (not counting student visas) 2. Are the age of majority in your country and over 20 3. Have not broken any laws while in Japan 4. Are able to support yourself financially and are willing to renounce other citizenships It seems that about 90% of people that apply for naturalization are accepted. Yet less than ~10,000 are accepted every year, so applying for citizenship seems unpopular relative to other G7 countries. Neat. I wonder why I was so certain that immigration was next to impossible and only visas were granted?

novok 5y ago
Sometimes in immigration, what is written down and what is reality is two different things. Ex: In panama I've heard of legit citizenship applications just rotting on the desk for many years. In a country like japan where it's more by the book, I'm not sure although. To get PR it takes 10 years to 1 year, so that might be a barrier, or maybe it's just a place that doesn't pay well + language barriers and thus wasn't that much of a draw to immigrate to? https://allabout-japan.com/en/article/7143/ https://allabout-japan.com/en/article/7143/
bluepizza 5y ago
When requesting naturalization, you have to go through interviews in Japanese, and send a handwritten letter in Japanese as well. That puts a lot of permanent residents off - why go through that when they can already stay indefinitely anyway?
- slim 5y ago
  I find this selection process fair and efficient
walrus01 5y ago

eloff 5y ago

Immigrate as in obtain permanent residency.

spookybones 5y ago

Do you know any websites/resources with more info on this?