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"The ASPI report said birth rates in counties with a 90 percent or greater indigenous population declined by an average of 56.5 percent from 2017 to 2018, far m

"The ASPI report said birth rates in counties with a 90 percent or greater indigenous population declined by an average of 56.5 percent from 2017 to 2018, far more than other regions in Xinjiang and China during the same period." https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-uses-coercive-policies-xinjiang-drive-down-uyghur-birth-rates-think-tank-2021-05-13 https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-uses-coercive-poli... 56.5% decline in birth rates in one year when the right sample is taken. Beyond shocking. Doing such a thing with your left hand while allowing more births for Han Chinese with your right hand must be seen for what it is: genocide.

elefanten 5y ago
You’re absolutely right and this comment has no business being grayed.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Uncomfortable truths
- chitowneats 5y ago
  Indeed, this seems to have touched a nerve. Interesting that no one has tried to refute my point directly. There are others in the thread who seem to be suggesting that because Han Chinese have also been subject to population control measures, that my point is somehow invalid. No one has yet explained why we see such steep birth rate declines, specifically in Uyghur regions, relative to the rest of China, only in the last half decade or so. You know, right around the time they started rounding up millions of people in that same ethnic group and putting them in camps. The Chinese government has many euphemisms and rationalizations for these camps, but they don't dispute their existence. In any case we have satellite imagery. What can one conclude about these coinciding actions by the Chinese state if not genocide? If it's not that, what is it?
beaunative 5y ago
the problem with that report is that I can't find anywhere the exact number, it only states decline by 56.5% without showing any specific numbers. I'm mildly suspicious that they originally had a much higher birth rate than Han Chinese since the same policy allowed one kid for Han Chinese allowed two to four kids for minorities
- beaunative 5y ago
  update, in a related voa newspiece, it reads 'For example, in Hotan prefecture, where the Uyghurs make up about 97% of the population, the birthrate was 8.58 per 1,000 people in 2018. Before 2017, it was more than 20 births per 1,000 people' at the same time the national average was around 11
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    That's one specific example, yes. You can find the 36 page report here: https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/ad-aspi/2021-05/Family%20deplanning%20v2.pdf?IO4rxtbW_Up5C6usSJ4EpMFHm6khL7uF https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/ad-aspi/2021-05/Fami... Edit: via this summary from ASPI (in case the AWS link above breaks in the future) https://www.aspi.org.au/report/family-deplanning-birthrates-xinjiang https://www.aspi.org.au/report/family-deplanning-birthrates-...
    - beaunative 5y ago
      Thank you so much. The full report is much more genuine than the abstract from the press. For example, it writes 'in Kashgar prefecture in 2014, the birth-rate soared to nearly 68 children per thousand people' at the same time the national average was around 12, perhaps because people in those regions are allowed more kids and the policy are rarely enforced compare to other region. so if the birth rate in that region simply fall to national average, it will went down 80%. I think it's an perfect example of how numbers lie, but most people don't have any vested interest to find out.
      - chitowneats 5y ago
        I’m glad you had time to digest that report thoroughly in the 11 minutes between my comment and yours. Of course, everyone here should be aware that you are cherry picking. The conclusion of the report is that on average, there was a steep drop in birth rate in minority counties. The report is named: "Family De-planning: The Coercive Campaign to Drive Down Indigenous Birth-rates in Xinjiang". This is not a case of media misrepresentation no matter how badly you want it to be. The conclusion is typically found at the end of a report. Why don’t you go back and try again.
chitowneats 5y ago
In case any potential down voters are not educated on the matter, the U.N. convention on genocide specifically prohibits targeting ethnic or religious minorities for forced sterilization/birth control: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

elefanten 5y ago

You’re absolutely right and this comment has no business being grayed.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
Uncomfortable truths
chitowneats 5y ago
Indeed, this seems to have touched a nerve. Interesting that no one has tried to refute my point directly. There are others in the thread who seem to be suggesting that because Han Chinese have also been subject to population control measures, that my point is somehow invalid. No one has yet explained why we see such steep birth rate declines, specifically in Uyghur regions, relative to the rest of China, only in the last half decade or so. You know, right around the time they started rounding up millions of people in that same ethnic group and putting them in camps. The Chinese government has many euphemisms and rationalizations for these camps, but they don't dispute their existence. In any case we have satellite imagery. What can one conclude about these coinciding actions by the Chinese state if not genocide? If it's not that, what is it?

beaunative 5y ago

the problem with that report is that I can't find anywhere the exact number, it only states decline by 56.5% without showing any specific numbers. I'm mildly suspicious that they originally had a much higher birth rate than Han Chinese since the same policy allowed one kid for Han Chinese allowed two to four kids for minorities

beaunative 5y ago
update, in a related voa newspiece, it reads 'For example, in Hotan prefecture, where the Uyghurs make up about 97% of the population, the birthrate was 8.58 per 1,000 people in 2018. Before 2017, it was more than 20 births per 1,000 people' at the same time the national average was around 11
- chitowneats 5y ago
  That's one specific example, yes. You can find the 36 page report here: https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/ad-aspi/2021-05/Family%20deplanning%20v2.pdf?IO4rxtbW_Up5C6usSJ4EpMFHm6khL7uF https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/ad-aspi/2021-05/Fami... Edit: via this summary from ASPI (in case the AWS link above breaks in the future) https://www.aspi.org.au/report/family-deplanning-birthrates-xinjiang https://www.aspi.org.au/report/family-deplanning-birthrates-...
  - beaunative 5y ago
    Thank you so much. The full report is much more genuine than the abstract from the press. For example, it writes 'in Kashgar prefecture in 2014, the birth-rate soared to nearly 68 children per thousand people' at the same time the national average was around 12, perhaps because people in those regions are allowed more kids and the policy are rarely enforced compare to other region. so if the birth rate in that region simply fall to national average, it will went down 80%. I think it's an perfect example of how numbers lie, but most people don't have any vested interest to find out.
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      I’m glad you had time to digest that report thoroughly in the 11 minutes between my comment and yours. Of course, everyone here should be aware that you are cherry picking. The conclusion of the report is that on average, there was a steep drop in birth rate in minority counties. The report is named: "Family De-planning: The Coercive Campaign to Drive Down Indigenous Birth-rates in Xinjiang". This is not a case of media misrepresentation no matter how badly you want it to be. The conclusion is typically found at the end of a report. Why don’t you go back and try again.

chitowneats 5y ago

In case any potential down voters are not educated on the matter, the U.N. convention on genocide specifically prohibits targeting ethnic or religious minorities for forced sterilization/birth control: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml