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Robert j. Sawyer is also a prominent wordstar diehard who ought to be interested in this project :) he wrote an interesting rationale for his use of wordstar. h

Robert j. Sawyer is also a prominent wordstar diehard who ought to be interested in this project :) he wrote an interesting rationale for his use of wordstar. https://www.sfwriter.com/wordstar.htm https://www.sfwriter.com/wordstar.htm I wonder if learning proper use of vim motions would cover most of these use cases today :)

eddieh 5y ago
Many authors use WordStar. Here is George R. R. Martin taking about WordStar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5REM-3nWHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5REM-3nWHg I think, and I believe it has been suggested to Robert J. Sawyer, that Emacs keys are very similar to WordStar in the use of cords (or prefixed keystrokes). WordStar has ^Q as a prefix whereas Emacs has ^x, ^c, and ^h, etc. [edit] Add bit about Emacs
- alpaca128 5y ago
  Both Vim and Emacs can bind almost any(1) kind of input with the right configuration. Emacs has a lot of them in the default configuration, Vim just a bit using e.g. the leader key and Ctrl-W for window/split navigation. But in the end it's about efficient keyboard-focused controls and it seems for many WordStar was the first one that fit the bill. (1) except inputs consisting of multiple keys at once; terminals don't detect keyup/keydown events. Maybe Emacs can do it, I'm not familiar enough to know.
  - rhabarba 5y ago
    Emacs mostly uses key chords, not unlike WordStar, but its document setting capabilities are limited out of the box.
  - ngcc_hk 5y ago
    Can vim do document and book oriented content like paragraph flow etc ?
Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
This rationale has completely convinced me that we will never see any new ASOIAF books from George Martin: even this very productive tool didn't help him finish new book in over a decade.
- capableweb 5y ago
  It's almost like the tool doesn't make the master, the master make the master.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR7XMkjDGw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR7XMkjDGw0
dang 5y ago
Three previous HN threads on that article, listed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27346290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27346290
slowmovintarget 5y ago
Should include a 1996 tag. I go read this every few years thinking maybe I should learn WordStar... Just like I should learn Emacs for Org Mode. Then I slouch back off to Sublime Text, Scrivener, and Word. I still write drafts in fountain pen, though.
- eddieh 5y ago
  If you are not already invested in WordStar and have an old DOS machine on hand, then I'd strongly suggest Emacs & Org Mode. The Emacs learning curve is pretty terrible, but once you are comfortable with Org you can do all your writing there. There's a huge benefit to having the same configuration for text editing (Sublime) and document preparation (Srivener, Word). Can't help with the fountain pen though. :)
  - dctoedt 5y ago
    Emacs and org-mode are great as a way to gradually learn LaTeX incrementally. (Of course, it helps to have been using both Emacs and org-mode for awhile.)
- deleted 5y ago
nottorp 5y ago
> Most North American users will have their system codepage set to 437, which displays the original IBM PC "PC-8" character set. If you use a different codepage, you might see accented alphabetic characters on screen where you'd expect to see some or all of the line- and box-drawing characters. I remember WordPerfect won because it could actually use accented characters in Eastern Europe.
- chx 5y ago
  Also Reveal Codes. To this day I often feel lost when I need to use word processors without Reveal Codes.
Torwald 5y ago
His explanation of why WordStar is so good (I guess I agree with him, never used WS), reads as if you say to a programmer at gunpoint: Drink these five bottles of whisky first and then re-implement Emacs Org-Mode on a CP/M machine. The ctrl key and block commands are almost Emacs and the duble periods are the Org-Mode markup.
- filmgirlcw 5y ago
  Yeah, it’s really interesting to look at how people created interfaces and features before the mouse and GUI became mainstream (and to be clear, I’m not trying to get into an argument about whether a keyboard driven UX is better than a mouse-keyboard UX, generally I agree that for most people spending a ton of time with text, a keyboard-driven UX is going to be more efficient — but the GUI is a very different/separate thing). Some of the ideas were good, some not so much. But it’s really interesting to see how people compensated for stuff like the lack of context menus and selections and comments and whatnot.
- pwillia7 5y ago
  Yeah I was going to say -- just wait until this guy hears about org mode
mabbo 5y ago
Sawyer's "Calculating God" was the first book I would consider "real sci-fi" that I ever read, at around age 13 or so. A friend's older brother had recommended it to me and it blew my mind. It was, for me, the turning point from reading what I now recognize to be mostly trash (primarily very early 'Star Wars' expanded universe books) to instead looking for things that had real impact. Books that made me think. Not everything he's written has been as good, but I read whatever this man publishes- even blog posts about old text editors.
- retsibsi 5y ago
  Which of his other books would you strongly recommend?

eddieh 5y ago

Many authors use WordStar. Here is George R. R. Martin taking about WordStar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5REM-3nWHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5REM-3nWHg I think, and I believe it has been suggested to Robert J. Sawyer, that Emacs keys are very similar to WordStar in the use of cords (or prefixed keystrokes). WordStar has ^Q as a prefix whereas Emacs has ^x, ^c, and ^h, etc. [edit] Add bit about Emacs

alpaca128 5y ago
Both Vim and Emacs can bind almost any(1) kind of input with the right configuration. Emacs has a lot of them in the default configuration, Vim just a bit using e.g. the leader key and Ctrl-W for window/split navigation. But in the end it's about efficient keyboard-focused controls and it seems for many WordStar was the first one that fit the bill. (1) except inputs consisting of multiple keys at once; terminals don't detect keyup/keydown events. Maybe Emacs can do it, I'm not familiar enough to know.
- rhabarba 5y ago
  Emacs mostly uses key chords, not unlike WordStar, but its document setting capabilities are limited out of the box.
- ngcc_hk 5y ago
  Can vim do document and book oriented content like paragraph flow etc ?

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

This rationale has completely convinced me that we will never see any new ASOIAF books from George Martin: even this very productive tool didn't help him finish new book in over a decade.

capableweb 5y ago
It's almost like the tool doesn't make the master, the master make the master.
bbarnett 5y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR7XMkjDGw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR7XMkjDGw0

dang 5y ago

Three previous HN threads on that article, listed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27346290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27346290

slowmovintarget 5y ago

Should include a 1996 tag. I go read this every few years thinking maybe I should learn WordStar... Just like I should learn Emacs for Org Mode. Then I slouch back off to Sublime Text, Scrivener, and Word. I still write drafts in fountain pen, though.

eddieh 5y ago
If you are not already invested in WordStar and have an old DOS machine on hand, then I'd strongly suggest Emacs & Org Mode. The Emacs learning curve is pretty terrible, but once you are comfortable with Org you can do all your writing there. There's a huge benefit to having the same configuration for text editing (Sublime) and document preparation (Srivener, Word). Can't help with the fountain pen though. :)
- dctoedt 5y ago
  Emacs and org-mode are great as a way to gradually learn LaTeX incrementally. (Of course, it helps to have been using both Emacs and org-mode for awhile.)
deleted 5y ago

nottorp 5y ago

> Most North American users will have their system codepage set to 437, which displays the original IBM PC "PC-8" character set. If you use a different codepage, you might see accented alphabetic characters on screen where you'd expect to see some or all of the line- and box-drawing characters. I remember WordPerfect won because it could actually use accented characters in Eastern Europe.

chx 5y ago
Also Reveal Codes. To this day I often feel lost when I need to use word processors without Reveal Codes.

Torwald 5y ago

His explanation of why WordStar is so good (I guess I agree with him, never used WS), reads as if you say to a programmer at gunpoint: Drink these five bottles of whisky first and then re-implement Emacs Org-Mode on a CP/M machine. The ctrl key and block commands are almost Emacs and the duble periods are the Org-Mode markup.

filmgirlcw 5y ago
Yeah, it’s really interesting to look at how people created interfaces and features before the mouse and GUI became mainstream (and to be clear, I’m not trying to get into an argument about whether a keyboard driven UX is better than a mouse-keyboard UX, generally I agree that for most people spending a ton of time with text, a keyboard-driven UX is going to be more efficient — but the GUI is a very different/separate thing). Some of the ideas were good, some not so much. But it’s really interesting to see how people compensated for stuff like the lack of context menus and selections and comments and whatnot.
pwillia7 5y ago
Yeah I was going to say -- just wait until this guy hears about org mode

mabbo 5y ago

Sawyer's "Calculating God" was the first book I would consider "real sci-fi" that I ever read, at around age 13 or so. A friend's older brother had recommended it to me and it blew my mind. It was, for me, the turning point from reading what I now recognize to be mostly trash (primarily very early 'Star Wars' expanded universe books) to instead looking for things that had real impact. Books that made me think. Not everything he's written has been as good, but I read whatever this man publishes- even blog posts about old text editors.

retsibsi 5y ago
Which of his other books would you strongly recommend?