5 ms·

The whole article is talking about China attempts to preserve endangered fish species. It mostly talking about how in the 80 and 90s they didn't do those prese

The whole article is talking about China attempts to preserve endangered fish species. It mostly talking about how in the 80 and 90s they didn't do those preservation research when building dams. The article also talks that its not only happening in China these old paddlefish species are endangered all over the globe.

boringg 5y ago
To be fair you haven't answered my question but stated that there are nascent efforts to preserve endangered fish after the damage is done. I don't doubt there are efforts however I refer to any arm of the government with real power or any institution that isn't related to the government with real power. Agree species are dying everywhere after all we are in an Holocene extinction event. That said it seems to happening at a faster pace in places like India and China with unfettered development.
- wyattpeak 5y ago
  The distinction you're applying seem to be arbitrary. What makes Chinese efforts nascent but American efforts (where species also continue to go extinct) developed? Most efforts to preserve animals come after the damage is done. That's why we maintain an endangered species list. I'm not going to argue that China is as committed to, or as successful at, the goal as say the US is, but "not as good" is very different from claiming they fundamentally lack something the West possesses.
  - indymike 5y ago
    > What makes Chinese efforts nascent but American efforts (where species also continue to go extinct) developed? Perhaps this isn't about nations, but about 1) how sad it is for such a unique species to be extinct, 2) a cautionary tale. Also, where I live (Indiana, USA) we have a native paddlefish species that was nearly fished to extinction by a ring of criminals that were killing them for their caviar. I wonder if something like that was happening with the Yangtze version? (Article doesn't mention)
    - katbyte 5y ago
      > Also, where I live (Indiana, USA) we have a native paddlefish species that was nearly fished to extinction how are they doing now? recovering?
      - indymike 5y ago
        This just happened (well, from 2019 to about a week ago the arrests were made).
  - cptskippy 5y ago
    It's less about pointing out a failure in China and more about understanding. As someone in the US, I know about the EPA and the DOI. I don't however know of such comparable government level agencies in China or any other country. Whenever anyone asks a question about certain countries, the responses are hypercritical, adversarial or defensive regardless of the questioner's intent.
  - boringg 5y ago
    So I haven't actually said anything comparing US to China. I see you want to answer your own question unrelated to mine - which is alright. I simply asked, and continue to ask without anyone being able to answer it: Are there any organizations in China that have any real power to do anything to protect the ecosystems critical to animal life or is it unfettered development >> ecosystem.
    - wyattpeak 5y ago
      Given that I wasn't responding to your question, but to a follow up comment you made, I don't see why you would have expected me to be answering your original question. Nevertheless, the organisation tasked with protecting the environment in China is called the Ministry of Ecology and Environment. To quote Wikipedia: > The Center for American Progress has described China's environmental policy as similar to that of the United States before 1970. That is, the central government issues fairly strict regulations, but the actual monitoring and enforcement are largely undertaken by local governments that have a greater interest in economic growth.
- msrenee 5y ago
  It happened in the US already in the same way it's happening in India and China now. The Carolina Parakeet, the Passenger Pigeon, dozens or hundreds of native plants. Shoot, the entire ecosystem known as the Tallgrass Prarie is limited to a few pockets where it used to cover a large section of the Midwest.
Melting_Harps 5y ago
> The article also talks that its not only happening in China these old paddlefish species are endangered all over the globe. What remarkable a looking fish, it looks more like a shark with a very elongated nose. Well, pat-on the-back progress aside of their 'efforts', I feel that this is in-line with not just the CCP's outview on the World, but Humanity in general. Biodiversity be damned (no pun intended) if it stands in the way of short term gain(s). Personally speaking, I think Wildlife and Marine biologists need to collaborate on maintaining these species all over the World in captivity, a real purpose for a zoo if there ever was one, to avoid this problem. I can't stand to see a wolf or a giraffe in a zoo, it makes me sad and I haven't been to one since I was forced to go when I was kid. As an adult I could justify going every 6 months if I knew these served primarily as a way to conserve endangered animals. Pandas being a chief example of it already being done. I have a lot of qualms with zoos in general and places like Sea World, I went to university with a well known marine biology program and the amount of collusion between Sea World and the biology department was rather blatant at times. The lessons we learned from the past 20 years in Tuna farming should serve as a model of what happens when you deplete the Oceans so bad you have to resort to man-made hatcheries for a highly consumed staple--I fear that this species of fish may not have the same recognition and thus a market price for it's survival and thus is deemed insignificant. Despite being a staunch Free Market advoacte, I'm well aware of the inadequacies of market based solutions alone to prevent, let alone, solve environmental setbacks like these and I fear we have run of time or options that ensured Governments could solve these either. It will require a massive uptick in the need of individuals to do this. If social media can topple a career with cancel culture over minor indiscretions, and make corporations apologize for BS things deemed not palatable to 'woke' mob then surely a strong drive to make them accountable for conservation should be possible, too. This being China, I think it's low on the list of atrocities the CCP has committed, even against it's species and this very little will be done to do more than distract from the real issue.
- refenestrator 5y ago
  Just last summer there was major flooding up and down the Yangtze. It used to be that lots of people died from these events, now that they have the river under control it's fine. Calling it simply 'development' obscures the very real human benefits.
msrenee 5y ago
"these old paddle fish species" Unless you're including sturgeon in that group, there is now only one surviving species of paddlefish. That one, thanks to heavy conservation efforts, is listed as vulnerable, but not endangered. It's actually legal to sport fish in many states but takes are heavily regulated. The closely related sturgeon species are also struggling.

boringg 5y ago

To be fair you haven't answered my question but stated that there are nascent efforts to preserve endangered fish after the damage is done. I don't doubt there are efforts however I refer to any arm of the government with real power or any institution that isn't related to the government with real power. Agree species are dying everywhere after all we are in an Holocene extinction event. That said it seems to happening at a faster pace in places like India and China with unfettered development.

wyattpeak 5y ago
The distinction you're applying seem to be arbitrary. What makes Chinese efforts nascent but American efforts (where species also continue to go extinct) developed? Most efforts to preserve animals come after the damage is done. That's why we maintain an endangered species list. I'm not going to argue that China is as committed to, or as successful at, the goal as say the US is, but "not as good" is very different from claiming they fundamentally lack something the West possesses.
- indymike 5y ago
  > What makes Chinese efforts nascent but American efforts (where species also continue to go extinct) developed? Perhaps this isn't about nations, but about 1) how sad it is for such a unique species to be extinct, 2) a cautionary tale. Also, where I live (Indiana, USA) we have a native paddlefish species that was nearly fished to extinction by a ring of criminals that were killing them for their caviar. I wonder if something like that was happening with the Yangtze version? (Article doesn't mention)
  - katbyte 5y ago
    > Also, where I live (Indiana, USA) we have a native paddlefish species that was nearly fished to extinction how are they doing now? recovering?
    - indymike 5y ago
      This just happened (well, from 2019 to about a week ago the arrests were made).
- cptskippy 5y ago
  It's less about pointing out a failure in China and more about understanding. As someone in the US, I know about the EPA and the DOI. I don't however know of such comparable government level agencies in China or any other country. Whenever anyone asks a question about certain countries, the responses are hypercritical, adversarial or defensive regardless of the questioner's intent.
- boringg 5y ago
  So I haven't actually said anything comparing US to China. I see you want to answer your own question unrelated to mine - which is alright. I simply asked, and continue to ask without anyone being able to answer it: Are there any organizations in China that have any real power to do anything to protect the ecosystems critical to animal life or is it unfettered development >> ecosystem.
  - wyattpeak 5y ago
    Given that I wasn't responding to your question, but to a follow up comment you made, I don't see why you would have expected me to be answering your original question. Nevertheless, the organisation tasked with protecting the environment in China is called the Ministry of Ecology and Environment. To quote Wikipedia: > The Center for American Progress has described China's environmental policy as similar to that of the United States before 1970. That is, the central government issues fairly strict regulations, but the actual monitoring and enforcement are largely undertaken by local governments that have a greater interest in economic growth.
msrenee 5y ago
It happened in the US already in the same way it's happening in India and China now. The Carolina Parakeet, the Passenger Pigeon, dozens or hundreds of native plants. Shoot, the entire ecosystem known as the Tallgrass Prarie is limited to a few pockets where it used to cover a large section of the Midwest.

Melting_Harps 5y ago

> The article also talks that its not only happening in China these old paddlefish species are endangered all over the globe. What remarkable a looking fish, it looks more like a shark with a very elongated nose. Well, pat-on the-back progress aside of their 'efforts', I feel that this is in-line with not just the CCP's outview on the World, but Humanity in general. Biodiversity be damned (no pun intended) if it stands in the way of short term gain(s). Personally speaking, I think Wildlife and Marine biologists need to collaborate on maintaining these species all over the World in captivity, a real purpose for a zoo if there ever was one, to avoid this problem. I can't stand to see a wolf or a giraffe in a zoo, it makes me sad and I haven't been to one since I was forced to go when I was kid. As an adult I could justify going every 6 months if I knew these served primarily as a way to conserve endangered animals. Pandas being a chief example of it already being done. I have a lot of qualms with zoos in general and places like Sea World, I went to university with a well known marine biology program and the amount of collusion between Sea World and the biology department was rather blatant at times. The lessons we learned from the past 20 years in Tuna farming should serve as a model of what happens when you deplete the Oceans so bad you have to resort to man-made hatcheries for a highly consumed staple--I fear that this species of fish may not have the same recognition and thus a market price for it's survival and thus is deemed insignificant. Despite being a staunch Free Market advoacte, I'm well aware of the inadequacies of market based solutions alone to prevent, let alone, solve environmental setbacks like these and I fear we have run of time or options that ensured Governments could solve these either. It will require a massive uptick in the need of individuals to do this. If social media can topple a career with cancel culture over minor indiscretions, and make corporations apologize for BS things deemed not palatable to 'woke' mob then surely a strong drive to make them accountable for conservation should be possible, too. This being China, I think it's low on the list of atrocities the CCP has committed, even against it's species and this very little will be done to do more than distract from the real issue.

refenestrator 5y ago
Just last summer there was major flooding up and down the Yangtze. It used to be that lots of people died from these events, now that they have the river under control it's fine. Calling it simply 'development' obscures the very real human benefits.

msrenee 5y ago

"these old paddle fish species" Unless you're including sturgeon in that group, there is now only one surviving species of paddlefish. That one, thanks to heavy conservation efforts, is listed as vulnerable, but not endangered. It's actually legal to sport fish in many states but takes are heavily regulated. The closely related sturgeon species are also struggling.