5 ms·

This bug is called “the tragedy of the commons” and people have been working on a hot fix for a while but I’m not sure it can be fully patched while running cap

This bug is called “the tragedy of the commons” and people have been working on a hot fix for a while but I’m not sure it can be fully patched while running capitalism.

bashinator 5y ago
It’s funny, sad, and telling that your post is not so popular on this particular forum. It certainly adds to the conversation, in my opinion.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  It's actually mentioned all the time, so whoever downvoted was probably bored with conversations about one thing always turning into political rehashes of the same old things over and over.
  - I-M-S 5y ago
    Capitalismum delenda est.
robocat 5y ago
Is China capitalist? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_mi...
- doctoboggan 5y ago
  Yes, despite what China may want you to think they are capitalist. Democracy =/= capitalism, you can have an authoritarian state with a capitalist economy. Also, even if China was a command economy that doesn't mean they too couldn't cause pollution. Its just that "the tragedy of the commons" is a specifically market economy problem.
  - AJ007 5y ago
    The Soviets left plenty of environmental damage, strong consensus they were not capitalist.
    - Dma54rhs 5y ago
      Soviets were proud of economic damage and the strength of human being putting rivers to flow in other direction for the benefit of a soviet man. All sort of talk about protecting the nature was by people brainwashed by the western ideals and propaganda.
- GuB-42 5y ago
  I consider China to be a communist country that understands capitalism and uses it to its advantage. A while capitalism encourages the tragedy of the commons and communism has the potential of solving it, it doesn't mean it will. Communism is a better system in theory, but from experience, it doesn't work as well in practice.
  - ric2b 5y ago
    > and communism has the potential of solving it How?
    - GuB-42 5y ago
      The entire idea of communism is meant to solve this problem, it is even in the name. And the solution is essentially using force. Someone will guard the cookie jar and make sure you don't take more than one. Workers are supposed to form a collective to enforce these rules. For example, you don't just launch a satellite, you tell the state you want to launch a satellite and if some council decides it will have a positive impact on society, you will be paid you a fixed salary to build it. This way, you can take a step back and think about the whole process, from start to finish and not just the money making part, there are no competitors to undercut you. At least that's theory. In practice it is very vulnerable to corruption and it doesn't incentivizes productive work.
      - ric2b 5y ago
        > And the solution is essentially using force. Someone will guard the cookie jar and make sure you don't take more than one. Sounds like private property to me. The gatekeeper tries to defend the commons and, even assuming they succeed, they can themselves abuse the commons or collect bribes, etc. > In practice it is very vulnerable to corruption and it doesn't incentivizes productive work. Right.
ctdonath 5y ago
Capitalism patches such problems, by incentivizing solutions. Got problems with space junk? someone is working on making a buck by solving your problem cheaper than you can, including by making a path to finding value in what would otherwise be just tossed.
nickik 5y ago
By far the most common solution for tragedy of the commons is property rights and that also what works the best in most cases. Solving tragedy of the commons in Britain is literally a major step in development of capitalism. Modern economists have since done a huge amount of work on this topic and multiple noble prices have been given to work on the subject. The idea that it is inherently a capitalist problem is nonsense, its a universal problem that exists in all human societies from hunter-gather to soviet socialism and all forms of capitalism. It can not be 'fully patched' in any system of human interaction. Humans have found millions of solution for the problem in a million different ways, there is no universal solution. I would recommend Elinor Ostrom work to illustrate this and how such situation can be solved. She had worked on this problem for 40+ and got a noble price for it. Other things to read are, Ronald Coase, Armen Alchian, Douglass North.

This bug is called “the tragedy of the commons” and people have been working on a hot fix for a while but I’m not sure it can be fully patched while running capitalism.

bashinator 5y ago

It’s funny, sad, and telling that your post is not so popular on this particular forum. It certainly adds to the conversation, in my opinion.

nitrogen 5y ago
It's actually mentioned all the time, so whoever downvoted was probably bored with conversations about one thing always turning into political rehashes of the same old things over and over.
- I-M-S 5y ago
  Capitalismum delenda est.

robocat 5y ago

Is China capitalist? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_mi...

doctoboggan 5y ago
Yes, despite what China may want you to think they are capitalist. Democracy =/= capitalism, you can have an authoritarian state with a capitalist economy. Also, even if China was a command economy that doesn't mean they too couldn't cause pollution. Its just that "the tragedy of the commons" is a specifically market economy problem.
- AJ007 5y ago
  The Soviets left plenty of environmental damage, strong consensus they were not capitalist.
  - Dma54rhs 5y ago
    Soviets were proud of economic damage and the strength of human being putting rivers to flow in other direction for the benefit of a soviet man. All sort of talk about protecting the nature was by people brainwashed by the western ideals and propaganda.
GuB-42 5y ago
I consider China to be a communist country that understands capitalism and uses it to its advantage. A while capitalism encourages the tragedy of the commons and communism has the potential of solving it, it doesn't mean it will. Communism is a better system in theory, but from experience, it doesn't work as well in practice.
- ric2b 5y ago
  > and communism has the potential of solving it How?
  - GuB-42 5y ago
    The entire idea of communism is meant to solve this problem, it is even in the name. And the solution is essentially using force. Someone will guard the cookie jar and make sure you don't take more than one. Workers are supposed to form a collective to enforce these rules. For example, you don't just launch a satellite, you tell the state you want to launch a satellite and if some council decides it will have a positive impact on society, you will be paid you a fixed salary to build it. This way, you can take a step back and think about the whole process, from start to finish and not just the money making part, there are no competitors to undercut you. At least that's theory. In practice it is very vulnerable to corruption and it doesn't incentivizes productive work.
    - ric2b 5y ago
      > And the solution is essentially using force. Someone will guard the cookie jar and make sure you don't take more than one. Sounds like private property to me. The gatekeeper tries to defend the commons and, even assuming they succeed, they can themselves abuse the commons or collect bribes, etc. > In practice it is very vulnerable to corruption and it doesn't incentivizes productive work. Right.

ctdonath 5y ago

Capitalism patches such problems, by incentivizing solutions. Got problems with space junk? someone is working on making a buck by solving your problem cheaper than you can, including by making a path to finding value in what would otherwise be just tossed.

nickik 5y ago

By far the most common solution for tragedy of the commons is property rights and that also what works the best in most cases. Solving tragedy of the commons in Britain is literally a major step in development of capitalism. Modern economists have since done a huge amount of work on this topic and multiple noble prices have been given to work on the subject. The idea that it is inherently a capitalist problem is nonsense, its a universal problem that exists in all human societies from hunter-gather to soviet socialism and all forms of capitalism. It can not be 'fully patched' in any system of human interaction. Humans have found millions of solution for the problem in a million different ways, there is no universal solution. I would recommend Elinor Ostrom work to illustrate this and how such situation can be solved. She had worked on this problem for 40+ and got a noble price for it. Other things to read are, Ronald Coase, Armen Alchian, Douglass North.