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Why not instead have an independent entity draw districts?

Swenrekcah 5y ago
That just moves the problem around. It might sort-of work for a time but all the incentives are still there so the parties will find a way.
chrisseaton 5y ago
Nobody ever believes the entity is really independent. We have an independent entity in the UK and people still aren't happy.
- rjtavares 5y ago
  It's also a terrible system that basically makes it impossible for a country-wide third party to ever gain significant representation. See, e.g., Scottish National Party having 35 seats with 3% of the vote vs. Lib Dems having 12 seats with 7%.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    But it allows areas with a national identity, like Scottish or Welsh seats, to be represented.
    - runarberg 5y ago
      If 50% of the seats is enough to control the legislator, you could argue that the Scottish and Welsh nationals don’t have true representation either.
  - bonzini 5y ago
    That has nothing to do with how districts are drawn.
- tialaramex 5y ago
  Specifically whoever is likely to lose seats is always unhappy, and so the reforms (and they are reforms, the UK in particular knows what happens when you don't have boundary reform for an extended period, that's where "rotten boroughs" came from) are frequently delayed or tweaked slightly by Parliament even though that's contrary to the purpose of an independent commission. I live near to the Island, and so this comes up here very often. The Island currently has one Member [of parliament], but its population is far too large for only one district, yet too small to just become two districts. So the obvious reform, considering the practical links between the Island and its relatively rural coastal neighbours, is to redistrict so as to create two districts which each contain half the island plus a chunk of rural Hampshire. However, a considerable number of people would prefer to be grossly under-represented (all the people on the entire Island get just one Member) rather than risk either or both of their two Members being less interested in the Island because they also represent some coast dwellers on the mainland.
jeltz 5y ago
Sure, but removing the incentive entirely is usually a much better solution.
thechao 5y ago
ICRCs can easily run awry of constitutional issues; more to the point: being an elected official is a job: gerrymandering improves incumbency rates. Why would you write yourself out of a job?

That just moves the problem around. It might sort-of work for a time but all the incentives are still there so the parties will find a way.

chrisseaton 5y ago

Nobody ever believes the entity is really independent. We have an independent entity in the UK and people still aren't happy.

rjtavares 5y ago
It's also a terrible system that basically makes it impossible for a country-wide third party to ever gain significant representation. See, e.g., Scottish National Party having 35 seats with 3% of the vote vs. Lib Dems having 12 seats with 7%.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  But it allows areas with a national identity, like Scottish or Welsh seats, to be represented.
  - runarberg 5y ago
    If 50% of the seats is enough to control the legislator, you could argue that the Scottish and Welsh nationals don’t have true representation either.
- bonzini 5y ago
  That has nothing to do with how districts are drawn.
tialaramex 5y ago
Specifically whoever is likely to lose seats is always unhappy, and so the reforms (and they are reforms, the UK in particular knows what happens when you don't have boundary reform for an extended period, that's where "rotten boroughs" came from) are frequently delayed or tweaked slightly by Parliament even though that's contrary to the purpose of an independent commission. I live near to the Island, and so this comes up here very often. The Island currently has one Member [of parliament], but its population is far too large for only one district, yet too small to just become two districts. So the obvious reform, considering the practical links between the Island and its relatively rural coastal neighbours, is to redistrict so as to create two districts which each contain half the island plus a chunk of rural Hampshire. However, a considerable number of people would prefer to be grossly under-represented (all the people on the entire Island get just one Member) rather than risk either or both of their two Members being less interested in the Island because they also represent some coast dwellers on the mainland.

jeltz 5y ago

Sure, but removing the incentive entirely is usually a much better solution.

thechao 5y ago

ICRCs can easily run awry of constitutional issues; more to the point: being an elected official is a job: gerrymandering improves incumbency rates. Why would you write yourself out of a job?