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EU has a similar article as the NATO article 5 common defense clause. What EU lacks is offensive overseas operation support, but EU actually doesn’t need that.

by tored 5y ago

EU has a similar article as the NATO article 5 common defense clause. What EU lacks is offensive overseas operation support, but EU actually doesn’t need that. It is wild fantasy from the most extreme EU supporters who want to build a US replica. What is the biggest threat to EU/Europe today? Definitely not Russia. Russia is just finishing the Nordstream2 pipeline, sanctions just lifted by the Biden administration, that will increase the capacity of the already existing pipeline between Russia and Germany. Russia wants to sell natural gas to many European countries. What we are going to see the next few years is the opposite, a closer integration between Russia and EU economies, especially between Russia and Germany.

CRConrad 5y ago
> What EU lacks is offensive overseas operation support, but EU actually doesn’t need that. It is wild fantasy from the most extreme EU supporters who want to build a US replica. You could just as well say "Not wanting it is a wild fantasy from the most extreme RT supporters who don't care if the EU is overrun by dictatorships on its eastern borders". > What is the biggest threat to EU/Europe today? Definitely not Russia. Russia is just finishing the Nordstream2 pipeline, Precisely that is probably the biggest threat to EU/Europe today. > sanctions just lifted by the Biden administration, Maybe Unca Joe really is going senile. > that will increase the capacity of the already existing pipeline between Russia and Germany. Russia wants to sell natural gas to many European countries. Yes, it wants to have them all... > What we are going to see the next few years is the opposite, a closer integration between Russia and EU economies, ...by the balls -- not just, but of course: > especially between Russia and Germany.
- tored 5y ago
  If it is important to protect eastern borders against being overrun by dictatorships how come European NATO members does not fulfill their 2% GDP military spending goal? Or is that Russia's fault? Why does EU sanction Poland, one of the few NATO members that does fulfill its 2% goal and have beefed up it's military against potential Russian aggression, or is that Russia's fault too? Was it Swedish politicians that downsized the Swedish military so much that it now only can defend one place in Sweden for a week (en-veckas-försvaret, ~ one week defense) or was i Putin? Was it Germany's chancellor Angela Merkel who opened the EU borders in 2015, which directly lead to a number of terrorist attacks, or was it Putin who did that? Was it NATO and EU that toppled Libya's dictator Gaddafi, which created a terrorist hotbed just across the Mediterranean, or was it Russia? If you know the answers to these questions you also know what the biggest threat is.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    All your arguments are irrelevant: Stupid politicians not sufficiently reacting to the greatest threat doesn't make the greatest threat anything other than the greatest threat. Jobba lite på logiken.
    - tored 5y ago
      No, they are not stupid, they did it intentionally and that is why they are the biggest threat. They were full aware of the consequences of each of the above decisions, but did it anyway. What has happened in the west is that governments used to work for its citizenry, now they work against them, e.g. the surveillance state. But if the biggest threat must be a foreign power, let's think about it, How many every day items do Europeans use that is manufactured in Russia? How many every day items do Europeans use that is manufactured in China? Why did the European establishment class outsource manufacturing to a hostile communist dictatorship? Please explain why Russia is the biggest threat, you haven't come up with any good counterarguments yet. The potential threat of withholding future natural gas deliveries when all the pipelines are completed is not going to be that effective, because European energy sector is much more diverse and larger than Ukraine's, an old failed ex Soviet state with bad infrastructure. And when we are talking about bad infrastructure, is it Putin pulling the strings or the Swedish Social democrats and Green government that can't provide sufficient power infrastructure to all places in Sweden?

by tored 5y ago

CRConrad 5y ago

> What EU lacks is offensive overseas operation support, but EU actually doesn’t need that. It is wild fantasy from the most extreme EU supporters who want to build a US replica. You could just as well say "Not wanting it is a wild fantasy from the most extreme RT supporters who don't care if the EU is overrun by dictatorships on its eastern borders". > What is the biggest threat to EU/Europe today? Definitely not Russia. Russia is just finishing the Nordstream2 pipeline, Precisely that is probably the biggest threat to EU/Europe today. > sanctions just lifted by the Biden administration, Maybe Unca Joe really is going senile. > that will increase the capacity of the already existing pipeline between Russia and Germany. Russia wants to sell natural gas to many European countries. Yes, it wants to have them all... > What we are going to see the next few years is the opposite, a closer integration between Russia and EU economies, ...by the balls -- not just, but of course: > especially between Russia and Germany.

tored 5y ago
If it is important to protect eastern borders against being overrun by dictatorships how come European NATO members does not fulfill their 2% GDP military spending goal? Or is that Russia's fault? Why does EU sanction Poland, one of the few NATO members that does fulfill its 2% goal and have beefed up it's military against potential Russian aggression, or is that Russia's fault too? Was it Swedish politicians that downsized the Swedish military so much that it now only can defend one place in Sweden for a week (en-veckas-försvaret, ~ one week defense) or was i Putin? Was it Germany's chancellor Angela Merkel who opened the EU borders in 2015, which directly lead to a number of terrorist attacks, or was it Putin who did that? Was it NATO and EU that toppled Libya's dictator Gaddafi, which created a terrorist hotbed just across the Mediterranean, or was it Russia? If you know the answers to these questions you also know what the biggest threat is.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  All your arguments are irrelevant: Stupid politicians not sufficiently reacting to the greatest threat doesn't make the greatest threat anything other than the greatest threat. Jobba lite på logiken.
  - tored 5y ago
    No, they are not stupid, they did it intentionally and that is why they are the biggest threat. They were full aware of the consequences of each of the above decisions, but did it anyway. What has happened in the west is that governments used to work for its citizenry, now they work against them, e.g. the surveillance state. But if the biggest threat must be a foreign power, let's think about it, How many every day items do Europeans use that is manufactured in Russia? How many every day items do Europeans use that is manufactured in China? Why did the European establishment class outsource manufacturing to a hostile communist dictatorship? Please explain why Russia is the biggest threat, you haven't come up with any good counterarguments yet. The potential threat of withholding future natural gas deliveries when all the pipelines are completed is not going to be that effective, because European energy sector is much more diverse and larger than Ukraine's, an old failed ex Soviet state with bad infrastructure. And when we are talking about bad infrastructure, is it Putin pulling the strings or the Swedish Social democrats and Green government that can't provide sufficient power infrastructure to all places in Sweden?