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Listen Europe, this is good spying though. Not Huawei 5G spying. Just like American torture is good torture, because we only torture the bad guys.

justicezyx 5y ago
Please correct your self. Huawei spying is a scam. No evidence whatsoever. This is reality. Confirmed multiple times and corroborated. Let's not drag a perfect fine private company to the same level of shadiness of the most corrupted national government.
- toxik 5y ago
  Please don’t treat the comments like a battleground for your irrelevant CCP crusade. I have read your comment history and it’s fairly obvious what you’re here for. It turns the HN comments to a hostile place.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    If you read my comments, you'll understand nothing what I am here for. Of course I present facades posting here. If you think what the comments represent one thing or another, then that's just your mind interpreting one aspect of the comments. BTW, put your words into action, citing any of my old comments that prove your point. I have no idea myself what those comments could be interpreted by a stranger. A good opportunity for me to calibrate. Thanks in advance!
correcthorse123 5y ago
I'm so glad your government is helping to keep us safe! To express my gratitude I'll help boost your economy with some ad revenue today and aid the good fight. The profits should trickle down to you eventually. On a more serious note, I think (possibly in my naive ignorance) the geopolitical implications are quite different. I have the impression that American cultural influence has become increasingly prevalent throughout Europe, since of course WO2 and especially since the dawn of the internet. A non-negligible part reads and writes more English than their native language, and the majority consumes mostly US media; for entertainment at least [citation needed]. This is one of many reasons leading me to believe that US-EU interests and popular opinions are even more aligned relative to other potential geopolitical/economical US "adversaries" than is obvious already (modulo the rep hit from the last 4 years). This may be only tangentially related to what you're saying, but I wonder whether the degree of spying on European countries and vice-versa is more of a low-profile intel maintenance thing as opposed to full-blown strategic warfare. I.e. I'm not sure to what extent I should consider this to be problematic.
- allendoerfer 5y ago
  > I'm not sure to what extent I should consider this to be problematic. Okay, I'll help you: By doing this shit, the US is losing goodwill and Germans will align more with Russia, e.g. by building pipelines instead of buying US gas. Russia is a long-term threat to the expansion plans of the EU and is hindering us at creating a true union across all of Europe. The US is a threat to our economy. China is becoming our biggest economic partner. We cannot trust them, but by doing shit like this, the US shows time and time again, that we cannot trust them either. China and Russia are ultimately not to blame for the big migration crisis caused by ISIS filling the power vacuum left behind in Iraq and Syria. This is causing real consequences for us over here. So Germany is more and more pushed towards aligning with Russia and China. Of course culturally we are much closer to the US. We condemn what these countries do to their own people. But in the end unfortunately, the US is stupid enough to make itself look worse and worse, when it comes to outcomes for our own people. This cannot be what the US wants. Once you have fully lost Germany, you are basically done in Europe and can go look East and see if you can hold on to Korea, Japan and Australia. I think, it would be much easier for the US to stop doing shit like this and keep the countries, which already kind of think like you, and would want you to stay number 1.
  - drran 5y ago
    Who pushed Schröder to work with Gasprom and lobby Nord Stream 2? Russia started the war with Ukraine to help Nord Stream and Gasprom by capturing of Ukrainian natural gas fields, so Schröder is partially responsible for that.
  - m00dy 5y ago
    You forgot to mention Turkey
  - correcthorse123 5y ago
    Alright thanks, it sounds like being reasonably worrisome if what you say reflects what's going on. I feel like I don't have the faintest clue as to how these things actually affect geopolitical dynamics though, so I find it hard to evaluate stuff like this.
quyleanh 5y ago
It's funny. How do you define what is good and what is bad? Are you sure American guys only torture the bad guys?
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  >How do you define what is good and what is bad? Simple. If the US tortured/drone striked them, they are bad.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    That has to be the worst most intellectually vacuous justification I can imagine. Barring the possibility that it is sarcasm or satire, in which case I apologize and note the difficulty of of discerning that tone online. If not though, this is the most facile definition of good and bad imaginable, echoing back to the history of might makes right and what I want is good and all who appose me are bad.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      If you found this post by reading the related thread, the sarcasm is fairly obvious.
      - ineedasername 5y ago
        Thanks for the note; usually I'm pretty good at identifying internet sarcasm, but in this case posting a comment at 4:30 am when I haven't slept appears not to be a great time for identifying such nuances.
- tremon 5y ago
  Are you sure guys that perform torture can ever be the good guys?
throw0101a 5y ago
> Listen Europe, this is good spying though. Not Huawei 5G spying. IMHO there is a difference between the two. In one case you (hopefully) have good, secure infrastructure for a society's general needs. In the other you (potentially) have fragile infrastructure that may not be under your control. I personally don't have too much of a problem with governments doing targeted operations at certain individuals, especially if they are important members of other governments. Doing large-scale dragnets that catch innocent people who pose no risk or do not have any strategic/tactical value to your goals is something else. (Which the NSA has been guilty of doing in the past.)
nix23 5y ago
And important: Don't torture bad guy on US territory because that would be illegal too ;)

justicezyx 5y ago

Please correct your self. Huawei spying is a scam. No evidence whatsoever. This is reality. Confirmed multiple times and corroborated. Let's not drag a perfect fine private company to the same level of shadiness of the most corrupted national government.

toxik 5y ago
Please don’t treat the comments like a battleground for your irrelevant CCP crusade. I have read your comment history and it’s fairly obvious what you’re here for. It turns the HN comments to a hostile place.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  If you read my comments, you'll understand nothing what I am here for. Of course I present facades posting here. If you think what the comments represent one thing or another, then that's just your mind interpreting one aspect of the comments. BTW, put your words into action, citing any of my old comments that prove your point. I have no idea myself what those comments could be interpreted by a stranger. A good opportunity for me to calibrate. Thanks in advance!

correcthorse123 5y ago

I'm so glad your government is helping to keep us safe! To express my gratitude I'll help boost your economy with some ad revenue today and aid the good fight. The profits should trickle down to you eventually. On a more serious note, I think (possibly in my naive ignorance) the geopolitical implications are quite different. I have the impression that American cultural influence has become increasingly prevalent throughout Europe, since of course WO2 and especially since the dawn of the internet. A non-negligible part reads and writes more English than their native language, and the majority consumes mostly US media; for entertainment at least [citation needed]. This is one of many reasons leading me to believe that US-EU interests and popular opinions are even more aligned relative to other potential geopolitical/economical US "adversaries" than is obvious already (modulo the rep hit from the last 4 years). This may be only tangentially related to what you're saying, but I wonder whether the degree of spying on European countries and vice-versa is more of a low-profile intel maintenance thing as opposed to full-blown strategic warfare. I.e. I'm not sure to what extent I should consider this to be problematic.

allendoerfer 5y ago
> I'm not sure to what extent I should consider this to be problematic. Okay, I'll help you: By doing this shit, the US is losing goodwill and Germans will align more with Russia, e.g. by building pipelines instead of buying US gas. Russia is a long-term threat to the expansion plans of the EU and is hindering us at creating a true union across all of Europe. The US is a threat to our economy. China is becoming our biggest economic partner. We cannot trust them, but by doing shit like this, the US shows time and time again, that we cannot trust them either. China and Russia are ultimately not to blame for the big migration crisis caused by ISIS filling the power vacuum left behind in Iraq and Syria. This is causing real consequences for us over here. So Germany is more and more pushed towards aligning with Russia and China. Of course culturally we are much closer to the US. We condemn what these countries do to their own people. But in the end unfortunately, the US is stupid enough to make itself look worse and worse, when it comes to outcomes for our own people. This cannot be what the US wants. Once you have fully lost Germany, you are basically done in Europe and can go look East and see if you can hold on to Korea, Japan and Australia. I think, it would be much easier for the US to stop doing shit like this and keep the countries, which already kind of think like you, and would want you to stay number 1.
- drran 5y ago
  Who pushed Schröder to work with Gasprom and lobby Nord Stream 2? Russia started the war with Ukraine to help Nord Stream and Gasprom by capturing of Ukrainian natural gas fields, so Schröder is partially responsible for that.
- m00dy 5y ago
  You forgot to mention Turkey
- correcthorse123 5y ago
  Alright thanks, it sounds like being reasonably worrisome if what you say reflects what's going on. I feel like I don't have the faintest clue as to how these things actually affect geopolitical dynamics though, so I find it hard to evaluate stuff like this.

quyleanh 5y ago

It's funny. How do you define what is good and what is bad? Are you sure American guys only torture the bad guys?

boomboomsubban 5y ago
>How do you define what is good and what is bad? Simple. If the US tortured/drone striked them, they are bad.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  That has to be the worst most intellectually vacuous justification I can imagine. Barring the possibility that it is sarcasm or satire, in which case I apologize and note the difficulty of of discerning that tone online. If not though, this is the most facile definition of good and bad imaginable, echoing back to the history of might makes right and what I want is good and all who appose me are bad.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    If you found this post by reading the related thread, the sarcasm is fairly obvious.
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      Thanks for the note; usually I'm pretty good at identifying internet sarcasm, but in this case posting a comment at 4:30 am when I haven't slept appears not to be a great time for identifying such nuances.
tremon 5y ago
Are you sure guys that perform torture can ever be the good guys?

throw0101a 5y ago

> Listen Europe, this is good spying though. Not Huawei 5G spying. IMHO there is a difference between the two. In one case you (hopefully) have good, secure infrastructure for a society's general needs. In the other you (potentially) have fragile infrastructure that may not be under your control. I personally don't have too much of a problem with governments doing targeted operations at certain individuals, especially if they are important members of other governments. Doing large-scale dragnets that catch innocent people who pose no risk or do not have any strategic/tactical value to your goals is something else. (Which the NSA has been guilty of doing in the past.)

nix23 5y ago

And important: Don't torture bad guy on US territory because that would be illegal too ;)