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The Five Eyes have built a sufficiently valuable asset that the security services of other rich countries all want in. Denmark is in Nine Eyes, so they’ll happ

The Five Eyes have built a sufficiently valuable asset that the security services of other rich countries all want in. Denmark is in Nine Eyes, so they’ll happily sell out members of Fourteen Eyes (like Germany) to get closer into the circle.

BombNullIsland 5y ago
You just assume that every electronic communication is dragneted now. Your phone, your car radio's bluetooth radio, toll transponder, alpr, everything. What I like about the signals-intelligence-only focus is that I can leave my phone at home, hop on an ebike with a legally mandated helmet obscuring my face from cameras, and I'm completely invisible to the state. I just don't exist. Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China.
- ruined 5y ago
  in any area with buildings, there are enough cameras to achieve decent tracking of an individual with a bit of legwork, and that legwork is quickly being automated by amazon et al with ring and similar efforts. newer cars also collect a lot of data that could be looped into such a system so you'd better avoid roads too. and wait til you hear about extreme definition wide angle cameras on aerial platforms
- culturestate 5y ago
  > Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China Nobody telegraphs their intentions like the Stasi did, but to believe that no state has developed coordinated efforts to get people to snitch on each other (the most effective Stasi tactic) is...let's say seeing things through an extremely rosy lens.
- peteretep 5y ago
  > Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China. I think I wouldn't want to rely on that assumption
- hosteur 5y ago
  > Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China. You are very mistaken. Just because HUMINT are more discreet does not mean it does not exist. Also, some of the stuff they do are very blatant. Just look at cases like Assange and Jake Appelbaum. Clearly HUMINT efforts.
  - jopsen 5y ago
    I personally suspect there are no HUMINT efforts to spy on me :)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- gccs 5y ago
  >legally mandated helmet obscuring my face from cameras Can you link to the bike helmet you are referring to?
dralley 5y ago
Germany has no room to complain. https://www.dw.com/en/parliamentary-report-finds-spying-by-bnd-on-eu-and-nato-governments-until-2013/a-19393213 https://www.dw.com/en/parliamentary-report-finds-spying-by-b... > German media later reported that the NSA had provided German intelligence services with spying software in exchange for data sharing. Consequently, the BND and it domestic intelligence couterpart, called the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV), were accused of assisting the NSA in its global surveillance programs. > ... > More than two-thirds of all 3,300 targets monitored by the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND) foreign intelligence service were on diplomatic representations of EU and NATO member states around the world, according to a parliamentary committee report seen by German news agency dpa. > The report found a "low two-digit number of people" - including heads of state and government, ministers and members of their offices and military institutions - were spied on until October 2013. That same year, Chancellor Angela Merkel had complained to US President Barack Obama that spying on friends was "not done." > The BND was also found to have spied on non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in the aviation and space industries, as well as the arms trade, transport, media and consultancy. The truth is that allies spy on each other all the time, it's not just normal but prudent to do so.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  >The truth is that allies spy on each other all the time, it's not just normal but prudent to do so. Thank you for the sanity. I certainly have problems with the surveillance state and authoritarianism in the US, but this is the most relevant take on this report. All spying is not all bad. Western countries give each other intel all the time. I would be more concerned if there were only one or a few set of eyes on things rather than more.

BombNullIsland 5y ago

You just assume that every electronic communication is dragneted now. Your phone, your car radio's bluetooth radio, toll transponder, alpr, everything. What I like about the signals-intelligence-only focus is that I can leave my phone at home, hop on an ebike with a legally mandated helmet obscuring my face from cameras, and I'm completely invisible to the state. I just don't exist. Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China.

ruined 5y ago
in any area with buildings, there are enough cameras to achieve decent tracking of an individual with a bit of legwork, and that legwork is quickly being automated by amazon et al with ring and similar efforts. newer cars also collect a lot of data that could be looped into such a system so you'd better avoid roads too. and wait til you hear about extreme definition wide angle cameras on aerial platforms
culturestate 5y ago
> Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China Nobody telegraphs their intentions like the Stasi did, but to believe that no state has developed coordinated efforts to get people to snitch on each other (the most effective Stasi tactic) is...let's say seeing things through an extremely rosy lens.
peteretep 5y ago
> Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China. I think I wouldn't want to rely on that assumption
hosteur 5y ago
> Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China. You are very mistaken. Just because HUMINT are more discreet does not mean it does not exist. Also, some of the stuff they do are very blatant. Just look at cases like Assange and Jake Appelbaum. Clearly HUMINT efforts.
- jopsen 5y ago
  I personally suspect there are no HUMINT efforts to spy on me :)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gccs 5y ago
>legally mandated helmet obscuring my face from cameras Can you link to the bike helmet you are referring to?

dralley 5y ago

Germany has no room to complain. https://www.dw.com/en/parliamentary-report-finds-spying-by-bnd-on-eu-and-nato-governments-until-2013/a-19393213 https://www.dw.com/en/parliamentary-report-finds-spying-by-b... > German media later reported that the NSA had provided German intelligence services with spying software in exchange for data sharing. Consequently, the BND and it domestic intelligence couterpart, called the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV), were accused of assisting the NSA in its global surveillance programs. > ... > More than two-thirds of all 3,300 targets monitored by the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND) foreign intelligence service were on diplomatic representations of EU and NATO member states around the world, according to a parliamentary committee report seen by German news agency dpa. > The report found a "low two-digit number of people" - including heads of state and government, ministers and members of their offices and military institutions - were spied on until October 2013. That same year, Chancellor Angela Merkel had complained to US President Barack Obama that spying on friends was "not done." > The BND was also found to have spied on non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in the aviation and space industries, as well as the arms trade, transport, media and consultancy. The truth is that allies spy on each other all the time, it's not just normal but prudent to do so.

SyzygistSix 5y ago
>The truth is that allies spy on each other all the time, it's not just normal but prudent to do so. Thank you for the sanity. I certainly have problems with the surveillance state and authoritarianism in the US, but this is the most relevant take on this report. All spying is not all bad. Western countries give each other intel all the time. I would be more concerned if there were only one or a few set of eyes on things rather than more.