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I have serious doubts that someone downloading this near 30 year old game's clearly fan translated version is going to be shocked and appalled by the poor quali

I have serious doubts that someone downloading this near 30 year old game's clearly fan translated version is going to be shocked and appalled by the poor quality translation and then reflect this onto Kairosoft's "business reputation." How about weighing a couple potential morons thinking less of a company against the archival value and reach of a project like this? In my view it isn't even close. The translation is worth it. Not everything needs to be reduced to "business reputation" and "$". Especially when we're talking about 24 year old japanese software. If anything a translation would improve outcomes for the company in myriad ways. One may be laying groundwork for a modern product that they could actually sell.

bdowling 5y ago
The company here can decide for itself whether it is in its best interest to allow an unlicensed fan translation of one of its programs. If it is, then the company does nothing. If not, then the company will tell them to stop what they're doing.
- BEEdwards 5y ago
  Why are you doing work for Kairosoft unpaid? Like at least put in an applications, your time is valuable.
  - ratww 5y ago
    > Like at least put in an applications Job interviews take way too much time. People have better things to do, such as working for free translating old games.
- egypturnash 5y ago
  According to this fan wiki I found (https://kairosoft.fandom.com/wiki/Kairosoft_Wiki https://kairosoft.fandom.com/wiki/Kairosoft_Wiki), Kairosoft hasn’t touched PCs since 2001, and has been doing mobile stuff. They have done more than a few games that seem to be in the same general genre as this one, but haven’t done a new version of Book Store Story. Maybe this will result in them seeing this outpouring of love for a 24 year old game and deciding to do a remake to their modern standards! Or maybe a Cease & Desist letter from a lawyer. We shall see.
fenomas 5y ago
I don't know why everyone's piling on GP here. This isn't abandonware, the game is still being distributed by a company that still operates. And TFA author isn't distributing a mod or a patch, they're distributing the full actual game, which the owner is also still distributing. I mean even then it may still be fine. But speculating about what the company might possibly think is beside the point - they're right there active on twitter! It's perfectly reasonable to wonder why TFA author didn't bother to reach out.
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  If the general very strict adherence to copyright in Japan is anything to go by, contacting them would probably mean getting a 'no, absolutely not' back initially, and even if they find someone there who is receptive to the idea the chances of getting full, legally sound permission seem remote. Not contacting them means keeping the clearance status at 'legally copyright infringement' rather than 'explicitly forbidden by the owners'. The two are the same if you just want to answer the 'Is this legal?' question, but for a noncommercial community translation effort like this it changes the 'Is this morally sound?' one.
  - lmm 5y ago
    To my mind wilful ignorance is not a defence. If you know they'd say no if you asked so you don't ask them, that means you know it's against their wishes.
    - lostcolony 5y ago
      "To my mind" isn't really a legally defensible position. It's unlikely Kairosoft, or any company, will sue in the US without first notifying. Courts much prefer you solve things without taking up their time, and so most company lawyers know to first give notice. Given that, it makes perfect sense NOT to ask for permission. If Kairosoft is unaware of it, or okay with it, for the time being at least, they can just ignore it. If that stance later changes, they will almost assuredly notify (especially given the international nature of it, since an international court case, against fans, for something they're not selling, is going to be a lot of trouble and expense and loss of good will, for no real gain) in which case the translation can be taken down. So legally, this is the sounder strategy. But you may be talking about the ethics of it. We'd have to define what we mean by ethics before really diving into that, but consider - if they were to ask permission, even if everyone involved in creating the game, even if the CEO of the company, were all on board letting them translate it...the lawyers likely wouldn't be. Actually, the lawyers might WANT to say yes, too, but feel it their legal duty to say no - "If we give them the okay others might etc etc and it would weaken future cases in court and etc etc". And based on that the company would say no, even though -everyone involved- there wants to say yes. Not asking, then, gives the company plausible defense later should they need to assert their copyrights, without actually telling the translators 'no' now. In short, not asking, regardless of how the company feels about it, risks only that the translators will later have to scrap their work. It does not risk the company anything (and in fact gives them the option to allow their work to reach a broader audience AND to assert their copyright any time they choose). As long as the translators are okay with that risk, it presents a win-win. Now, what makes sense to do -in Japan-, I couldn't say.
2ion 5y ago
Japanese media publishers are notorious for being unforgiving for unauthorized copies. The only reason this has little impact in the West is that most media produced for the Japanese market in whatever form do not even make it to Western markets and are a true niche interest here.

bdowling 5y ago

The company here can decide for itself whether it is in its best interest to allow an unlicensed fan translation of one of its programs. If it is, then the company does nothing. If not, then the company will tell them to stop what they're doing.

BEEdwards 5y ago
Why are you doing work for Kairosoft unpaid? Like at least put in an applications, your time is valuable.
- ratww 5y ago
  > Like at least put in an applications Job interviews take way too much time. People have better things to do, such as working for free translating old games.
egypturnash 5y ago
According to this fan wiki I found (https://kairosoft.fandom.com/wiki/Kairosoft_Wiki https://kairosoft.fandom.com/wiki/Kairosoft_Wiki), Kairosoft hasn’t touched PCs since 2001, and has been doing mobile stuff. They have done more than a few games that seem to be in the same general genre as this one, but haven’t done a new version of Book Store Story. Maybe this will result in them seeing this outpouring of love for a 24 year old game and deciding to do a remake to their modern standards! Or maybe a Cease & Desist letter from a lawyer. We shall see.

fenomas 5y ago

I don't know why everyone's piling on GP here. This isn't abandonware, the game is still being distributed by a company that still operates. And TFA author isn't distributing a mod or a patch, they're distributing the full actual game, which the owner is also still distributing. I mean even then it may still be fine. But speculating about what the company might possibly think is beside the point - they're right there active on twitter! It's perfectly reasonable to wonder why TFA author didn't bother to reach out.

Freak_NL 5y ago
If the general very strict adherence to copyright in Japan is anything to go by, contacting them would probably mean getting a 'no, absolutely not' back initially, and even if they find someone there who is receptive to the idea the chances of getting full, legally sound permission seem remote. Not contacting them means keeping the clearance status at 'legally copyright infringement' rather than 'explicitly forbidden by the owners'. The two are the same if you just want to answer the 'Is this legal?' question, but for a noncommercial community translation effort like this it changes the 'Is this morally sound?' one.
- lmm 5y ago
  To my mind wilful ignorance is not a defence. If you know they'd say no if you asked so you don't ask them, that means you know it's against their wishes.
  - lostcolony 5y ago
    "To my mind" isn't really a legally defensible position. It's unlikely Kairosoft, or any company, will sue in the US without first notifying. Courts much prefer you solve things without taking up their time, and so most company lawyers know to first give notice. Given that, it makes perfect sense NOT to ask for permission. If Kairosoft is unaware of it, or okay with it, for the time being at least, they can just ignore it. If that stance later changes, they will almost assuredly notify (especially given the international nature of it, since an international court case, against fans, for something they're not selling, is going to be a lot of trouble and expense and loss of good will, for no real gain) in which case the translation can be taken down. So legally, this is the sounder strategy. But you may be talking about the ethics of it. We'd have to define what we mean by ethics before really diving into that, but consider - if they were to ask permission, even if everyone involved in creating the game, even if the CEO of the company, were all on board letting them translate it...the lawyers likely wouldn't be. Actually, the lawyers might WANT to say yes, too, but feel it their legal duty to say no - "If we give them the okay others might etc etc and it would weaken future cases in court and etc etc". And based on that the company would say no, even though -everyone involved- there wants to say yes. Not asking, then, gives the company plausible defense later should they need to assert their copyrights, without actually telling the translators 'no' now. In short, not asking, regardless of how the company feels about it, risks only that the translators will later have to scrap their work. It does not risk the company anything (and in fact gives them the option to allow their work to reach a broader audience AND to assert their copyright any time they choose). As long as the translators are okay with that risk, it presents a win-win. Now, what makes sense to do -in Japan-, I couldn't say.

2ion 5y ago

Japanese media publishers are notorious for being unforgiving for unauthorized copies. The only reason this has little impact in the West is that most media produced for the Japanese market in whatever form do not even make it to Western markets and are a true niche interest here.