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NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
- quyleanh 5y agoI still wonder, what happens if other countries like China, Russia spy on other governments and are disclosed? They will be embargoed by US. But why there is nothing happens when US spying other countries? Because US does it with good manner and good intention?
- Permit 5y ago> I still wonder, what happens if other countries like China, Russia spy on other governments and are disclosed? They will be embargoed by US. Does this happen? Has China faced sanctions after spying on US citizens or stealing trade secrets? Has Russia?
- f38zf5vdt 5y agoYeah. For a while now. [1][2] [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/administration-developing-sanctions-against-china-over-cyberespionage/2015/08/30/9b2910aa-480b-11e5-8ab4-c73967a143d3_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/admin... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/biden-to-announce-tough-sanctions-on-russia-over-cyber-spying/2021/04/15/a4c1d260-746e-11eb-948d-19472e683521_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/biden-to-an...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Permit 5y agoThe China sanctions do not appear to have been enacted, but the Russian ones in response to the attack on SolarWinds do. Thanks for the links!
- quyleanh 5y ago> Does this happen? Has China faced sanctions after spying on US citizens or stealing trade secrets? Has Russia? Yes, it does happen. I've read many news about US claims that Chinese government-backed hacker groups or corporations spying and stealing. And they are embargoed. You can refer to Huawei case.
- Permit 5y ago> You can refer to Huawei case. I have only surface-level knowledge, but wasn't this case because Huawei was selling components to Iran? Or was it related to spying?
- eloff 5y agoIt was selling components to Iran.
- quyleanh 5y agoYou can refer to this article. US claims Huawei 5G devices can track and spy US and Europe citizens. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/for-huawei-the-5g-play-is-in-europe--and-the-us-is-pushing-hard-for-a-ban-there/2019/05/28/582a8ff6-78d4-11e9-b7ae-390de4259661_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/for-h...
- justicezyx 5y agoSelling to Iran as the motivation of sanctioning Huawei? How poorly you are informed about international politics? If selling to Iran was a problem, then you can just do whatever you want in the legal process to fix the issue. Force companies to not work with huawei, even against those companies' own interests. And detaining the Huwei founder's daughter and internationally to drag her into a legal marathon that has no end in sight, virtually sentence her to life time home arrest. How naïve you are! Or should I say how consistently you are sugarcoating the bullshit, bravo!
- Permit 5y ago> How poorly you are informed about international politics? > How naïve you are! Why the hostility? I've asked a handful of questions in good faith and another commenter politely corrected me on a few issues I was not aware of. It sounds like you have a better understanding of the issues at hand so I'd invite you to correct me rather than insult me.
- unishark 5y agoI'm not clear what is illegal and where is the jurisdiction in this case. Apparently it is about Danish Intelligence allowing the tapping of Danish internet lines in Denmark. Is that a crime? Is it even something China would deny doing within their own country? I thought the US govt would just refused to allow services or something be sold to the US from China if they knew it went on. Or you know, try to, before the outrage and legal process overturned the ban.
- fogihujy 5y agoIllegal? Possibly. It's being debated according to Danish news. Controversial? Yes, to the extent that Denmark managed to piss off every single neighboring country. Also, Denmark is actively trying to avoid shutting down some illegal monitoring of its' own citizens, and this is pouring more fuel on that fire. Spying on Germany caused a political shitstorm the last time it was im the Danish news and now it has been revealed Denmark spied on others too, I suspect that circus will be repeated.
- woofcat 5y agoSpying happens all the time without embargo's happening.
- rsj_hn 5y agoWait, we have an embargo against China?
- quyleanh 5y agoYou really don't know?
- nosianu 5y agoQuite timely that we have a Wikipedia article on the HN homepage right now. Because I find that that site often helps with such questions, so I find them quite a valuable resource. They have a list for just this question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions_against_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions_agains...
- f38zf5vdt 5y agoRemember the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- paganel 5y agoOr the nuclear arsenal which sits on your side. Most of Europe has effectively outsourced its military defence to the Americans with some plain, visible costs (the at least 2% of GDP in military expenditure the previous US president was so keen about) and, more importantly, there are also some other, hidden costs, like the Assange scandal and stuff like this Danish - NSA cooperation.
- Daho0n 5y ago>Most of Europe has effectively outsourced its military defence to the Americans That is a very American point of view. Many Europeans see it more as "The US pay a bigger part than we do in bolstering American control of the western world", which is exactly as it should be. IMO the US should pay exactly 100% of the bill for its own defense and enforcement of its power projection. The US does this to protect the US, not Europe. Europe is only interesting if it is pro-US and as a buffer and economic zone. Old Cold war plans even had plans to nuke Europe to show the USSR that the US meant business in the event of a USSR invasion.. What we see here is a perfect example why I (as a Danish citizen) have heard Denmark called Little America and Scandinavia's answer to the USA by both Swedes and Norwegians. Often living here feels more like living in a satellite or puppet state than a free country: Do F-35s match our need? No not at all but we better break our own laws to make a contract that only the US can win. Do citizens want a US base the Danish military isn't allowed to monitor for nuclear weapons? No but we still got one (and even though not allowed it still had nukes). Do the people want a NSA like intelligence system? No but even the average elected politicians can't get access to any information about FE and what they do (only leaks like this tell them what is going on). And so on and so forth. The latest Democratic Perception Index (chaired by the Danish former NATO general secretary Anders Fogh) found when asking people "Who is the biggest threat to democracy in the world?" most rated the US as the biggest threat (if I remember correctly, northern Europeans especially had this viewpoint). This is just a situation of the puppet doing as it was taught.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago> But why there is nothing happens when US spying other countries? Because US does it with good manner and good intention? The best way to understand the relationship between the US and Europe is that it is an American Empire in all but name. The provinces of the Empire have a lot of autonomy, but in matters of defense and security they are tied to the Empire. If you realize that, a lot of things make sense.
- kalleboo 5y agoBecause ostensibly the US is an ally. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7jdz-fXwAI8w-U?format=jpg&name=900x900 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7jdz-fXwAI8w-U?format=jpg&name=...
- severino 5y agoBecause nothing happens when you spy on your satellite states. 40 years ago people said it was wrong to have Soviet satellite states in Europe, and they seemed right. Only that they just meant the "Soviet" part of the sentence.
- planck01 5y agoSpying among allies has more impact than you think. There are similar levels of public outrage, but obviously you can't boycot allies without damaging relations more. So measures won't be pubically visual. But it will lead to a degraded confidence and all kinds of cooperation will be reduced and cold shouldering will happen. However subtle and only when a countries own interest is not hurt too much.
- 1cvmask 5y agoWe love spying on ourselves (US citizens and residents) as well through our foreign partners. We give raw data to foreign countries on Americans: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-...
- BombNullIsland 5y agoIt wouldn't surprise me if every military intelligence organization on the planet was now secretly allied and colluding against the common enemy, the public interest.
- ahmedalsudani 5y agoIt’s a big club and you ain’t in it https://youtu.be/Nyvxt1svxso https://youtu.be/Nyvxt1svxso
- BombNullIsland 5y agoI'm a white late-30's politically inactive prole with no social media accounts, a paid off house, solar panels, plug in hybrid, e-bike and large vegetable garden. None of this bullshit really concerns me. It's all just the oligarchs fighting for who gets to momentarily sit at the top of the pile.
- ku-man 5y agoSome of us like eat beef and watch Korean dramas in Netflix. Also, some of us have mortgages and large families. So, hinting that the solution to this absurd surveillance society is to live off the grid is disingenuous.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y agoI agree with your second statement, I disagree with your first. Every day things get harder and harder not to be a schizoid with a tinfoil hat. I mean cash has got a long way before not being accepted but I wouldnt be shocked if it goes all digital in the next 50 years (meaning credit, debit, ach, PayPal, Venmo, crypto, etc). Mobile phones and cellular data plans are what dominate our lives. It's impossible to get by without them...unless you are willing to be a secluded schizoid (and I'm not saying that in a deragotory sense). I mean that's all fine and dandy and you still be a nice person and whatnot. However, only techie people honestly are aware of it. "Normies" know about it, but they give in because everyone else did and those affluent oligarchs did too. Many of which those "normies" want to be like them. So the times are changing. And sadly not for the better freedom wise.
- boomboomsubban 5y agoI'm unsure what of this information is new. It sounds like the EU just found nine sources to confirm one aspect of the Snowden leak? Were people ever really doubting the authenticity of those documents? I'm sure some people have, but it never seemed like a common realistic belief.
- redis_mlc 5y agoBefore his leak, even people in IT doubted mass government surveillance. For about a year after the leak, people were asking for proof. Now it's inverted, so that most people think he's credible, and require proof if somebody starts throwing the "debunked" word around. Funnily enough, just like the corona lab leak theory. :)
- SiempreViernes 5y agoI think this is more of "and they keep doing it!" story rather than claims for new behaviour.
- boomboomsubban 5y agoSorry, I don't get what you mean. The story says they keep doing it but has no new examples of them doing it?
- synquid 5y agoThat sounds about right, as I read it. The sources seem to be 9 (former?) employees, confirming a classified internal report from 2015.
- maxden 5y agoand in 2015 it was reported Germany was helping the NSA spy on European politicians. NSA doing what the NSA does really. https://www.theverge.com/2015/4/24/8489477/bnd-nsa-information-sharing-review-surveillance https://www.theverge.com/2015/4/24/8489477/bnd-nsa-informati...
- dralley 5y agoAnd not just the NSA. Despite their feigned outrage every time stuff like this hits the news, both Germany and France actively spy on US government and industry all the time. Every nation spies on every other nation, friend or foe, to look out for their own national interests. https://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squarcini-dcri-hollande-ayrault-merkel-usa-obama https://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squar... > Bernard Squarcini, head of the Direction Centrale du Renseignement Intérieur (DCRI) intelligence service until last year, told French daily Le Figaro he was “astonished” when Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault said he was "deeply shocked" by the claims. > “I am amazed by such disconcerting naiveté,” he said in the interview. “You’d almost think our politicians don’t bother to read the reports they get from the intelligence services.” > “The French intelligence services know full well that all countries, whether or not they are allies in the fight against terrorism, spy on each other all the time,” he said. > “The Americans spy on French commercial and industrial interests, and we do the same to them because it’s in the national interest to protect our companies.” > “There was nothing of any real surprise in this report,” he added. “No one is fooled.” https://www.dw.com/en/german-intelligence-spied-on-white-house/a-39365418 https://www.dw.com/en/german-intelligence-spied-on-white-hou... > The Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany's foreign intelligence agency, reportedly monitored email addresses at the White House with a list of some 4,000 selector keywords between 1998 and 2006. Other targets included the US Department of State and Department of Treasury, as well as a number of defense agencies including the US Air Force and the Marine Corps, and the NASA space agency.
- baybal2 5y agoThese people are without honour
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- Black101 5y agoOther countries also help the NSA spy on US citizens so that they can do it somewhat more legally
- peteretep 5y agoThe Five Eyes have built a sufficiently valuable asset that the security services of other rich countries all want in. Denmark is in Nine Eyes, so they’ll happily sell out members of Fourteen Eyes (like Germany) to get closer into the circle.
- BombNullIsland 5y agoYou just assume that every electronic communication is dragneted now. Your phone, your car radio's bluetooth radio, toll transponder, alpr, everything. What I like about the signals-intelligence-only focus is that I can leave my phone at home, hop on an ebike with a legally mandated helmet obscuring my face from cameras, and I'm completely invisible to the state. I just don't exist. Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China.
- ruined 5y agoin any area with buildings, there are enough cameras to achieve decent tracking of an individual with a bit of legwork, and that legwork is quickly being automated by amazon et al with ring and similar efforts. newer cars also collect a lot of data that could be looped into such a system so you'd better avoid roads too. and wait til you hear about extreme definition wide angle cameras on aerial platforms
- culturestate 5y ago> Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China Nobody telegraphs their intentions like the Stasi did, but to believe that no state has developed coordinated efforts to get people to snitch on each other (the most effective Stasi tactic) is...let's say seeing things through an extremely rosy lens.
- peteretep 5y ago> Unlike East Germany there's no HUMINT apparatus in the west or in China. I think I wouldn't want to rely on that assumption
- hosteur 5y ago
- pcbro141 5y agoListen Europe, this is good spying though. Not Huawei 5G spying. Just like American torture is good torture, because we only torture the bad guys.
- justicezyx 5y agoPlease correct your self. Huawei spying is a scam. No evidence whatsoever. This is reality. Confirmed multiple times and corroborated. Let's not drag a perfect fine private company to the same level of shadiness of the most corrupted national government.
- toxik 5y agoPlease don’t treat the comments like a battleground for your irrelevant CCP crusade. I have read your comment history and it’s fairly obvious what you’re here for. It turns the HN comments to a hostile place.
- justicezyx 5y agoIf you read my comments, you'll understand nothing what I am here for. Of course I present facades posting here. If you think what the comments represent one thing or another, then that's just your mind interpreting one aspect of the comments. BTW, put your words into action, citing any of my old comments that prove your point. I have no idea myself what those comments could be interpreted by a stranger. A good opportunity for me to calibrate. Thanks in advance!
- correcthorse123 5y agoI'm so glad your government is helping to keep us safe! To express my gratitude I'll help boost your economy with some ad revenue today and aid the good fight. The profits should trickle down to you eventually. On a more serious note, I think (possibly in my naive ignorance) the geopolitical implications are quite different. I have the impression that American cultural influence has become increasingly prevalent throughout Europe, since of course WO2 and especially since the dawn of the internet. A non-negligible part reads and writes more English than their native language, and the majority consumes mostly US media; for entertainment at least [citation needed]. This is one of many reasons leading me to believe that US-EU interests and popular opinions are even more aligned relative to other potential geopolitical/economical US "adversaries" than is obvious already (modulo the rep hit from the last 4 years). This may be only tangentially related to what you're saying, but I wonder whether the degree of spying on European countries and vice-versa is more of a low-profile intel maintenance thing as opposed to full-blown strategic warfare. I.e. I'm not sure to what extent I should consider this to be problematic.
- liberty-bzmh 5y agoこれは確かにスパイの正義です。
- Black101 5y ago"This is certainly spy justice.", according to Google Translate.
- rsj_hn 5y agoThis all boils down to the question of how to reign in the administrative state, and the problem here is that no one really wants to reign it in, they want to control it and point it in the direction they prefer, that is, they want an extra-judicial, extra-legislative source of power to exist, but just not do any of the things they don't like. But I don't think this is possible, once you have an administrative state, of course it's going to monitor and spy on everyone, it's going to arrest people and not give them fair trials (hello Assange), it's going to try to manipulate democratic processes and it's going to crush any force that it perceives as a threat to its own survival. In short, it will have a mind of its own, with its own goals, and by definition it will not be bound by legislative or judicial restraints.
- sneak 5y agoDo you think it would be fair to say that countries that operate in this way are no longer democracies? I have my own thoughts on the matter but I'm curious based on this assessment of yours what other people think about the implications of the situation.
- samcal 5y agoI think it's probably most accurate to say that there are democracies of different sizes. Your country is a more of democracy as more people have equal agency over their government. This obviously has never happened to a complete extent, and it's still an open question whether that should happen. But a discrete separation between "democracies" and "not democracies" will run into these sorts of problems in any case.
- noja 5y ago> Do you think it would be fair to say that countries that operate in this way are no longer democracies? Such an agency operating outside of the visibility of those voting is by definition not democratic. But that doesn't mean the rest of the democracy isn't there.
- sneak 5y ago
- wyxuan 5y agoI spoke to someone in intelligence and apparently for a while, France spied quite a bit on the US. Spying on allies is not as uncommon or taboo as most others would think it is.
- jpz 5y agoThe EU project has always been a project rather paternalistically cultivated by US foreign operations, including intelligence operations, so I believe. It allowed them to remove a heap of troops from forward bases in the region.
- visarga 5y agoI think Europeans have had enough wars to want a more stable Europe, with or without US support.
- jpz 5y agoTt was the CIA that infiltrated the communists in Italy for the exact purpose of shaping the politics of the continent to their design. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Italy See also: https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/11/13/how-the-cia-created-the-eu/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/11/13/how-the-cia-created-th... You may think that this accordance of like-mind was spontaneous, but it has clearly been a half-century long project of the United States. No wonder their disappointment when their main man inside the bloc, the UK, elected to leave.
- Cybotron5000 5y agoThe CIA has certainly done some regrettable/shady stuff historically, as have almost all intelligence organisations that I’m aware of (reading about the history of espionage and covert activities, I often wonder how the people involved manage to preserve any sort of sanity in that mistrustful, cloak and dagger world?). Although politically (and somewhat culturally?) natural allies, being that both entities are largely a collection of democracies/republics, if you view global economics as a zero-sum game you could say that the EU is a direct competitor to the US. Indeed, although politically less-strongly federated/bound together, as far as I’m aware, the EU has greater wealth as a whole than the US does. Various governments, companies and individuals that oppose democratic forms of government and ‘liberal’ values see the economic strength, cooperation and mutual defence/offence promoted by an alignment of these two political organisations as counter to their interests, or potentially a threat to more authoritarian hegemonies. Contrary to what you say, the previous US administration actively supported Brexit. Many authoritarian governments around the world were also cheering it on, as presumably geo-strategically it was/is in their interests to divide and undermine democratic forms of government.
- gadf 5y agoThe problem is not the spying. Everyone's doing it. Privacy is an illusion. Encryption is meaningless to the state. The problem is how the information is utilized and whether the staff and bureaucracy are professionals or pro-liars. Professionals have integrity, operate in a facts- and data-based manner, possess a moral code guided by people's benefit, are fully accountable for their actions to an internally transparent independent oversight mechanism with legal repercussions. Pro-liars are fabricators, blackmailers and betrayers, with zero integrity, adopting sloppy collection techniques, coercing cooperation, reacting on opinions that confirm their biases, abusers of the power they have, and of their targets, working in a constantly shifting amoral environment, guided by power and revenge, without oversight or accountability, and inoculate themselves to legal repercussions by hiding within secrecy protections. All this official "shock and horror" comes across as crocodile tears, and would be better channeled into internally reforming the bloated security/intelligence bureaucracy (globally, not specific to any one region) that, although peppered with pockets of professionals, is also poisoned by the snake-tongued cancer of pro-liars.
- throwaway210222 5y ago> Denmark, USA ? There is a Nordstream 2 angle here that I have yet to figure out.
- aborsy 5y agoFunny question, wouldn’t the head of these European states use e2e encryption? If they do, how does NSA break encryption without having secret keys? Frankly, we can’t blame NSA only.
- jopsen 5y agoI'm guessing phone calls and sms isn't encrypted and frequently used. Regardless, just monitoring IPs talking to each other will have you some idea what sites / services they are using. Also 10 years ago HTTPS wasn't everywhere yet.
- aborsy 5y agoWhy on earth someone like Merkle will use plaintext SMS? I mean, even I don’t use it. Doesn’t she have a competent security team, advising her about OPSec? It’s not just metadata. US spied on communication content. The point is, tools are there; you need to be able to defend yourself against attacks.
- jopsen 5y ago10 years ago... I still use sms with family members, etc. The tools are there... But have you successfully convinced all your friends to use signal? I know Merkles connects to family and friends might not seem critical, but it's probably stuff like that they are aggregating. But just recording phone numbers. But also just getting IPs let's you know what services a person is using. It's my impression that much it the SIGINT Snowdon revealed was metadata.. of course for a target like Merkle there might be more.
- jmartinpetersen 5y agoMost sovereign States can’t spy on their own population. The NSA gets around this by spying on Germany from Denmark and on Denmark from Germany. It’s all about plausible deniability. No matter how implausible it is. The current spin from other countries being outraged begs the question: how are you collaborating with the NSA?
- thysultan 5y agoThey're not outraged, they are just making fun of them for getting caught.
- xorcist 5y agoIt is one thing that intelligence services is monitoring specific actions that are important to national security. However, along the way, Lockheed Martin and friends and the jobs provided by them became national security. These two things are important to keep separate to understand the debate that is going on here. So this is Danish intelligence services helping Boeing securing contracts against Airbus and Saab. This is rightfully causing some much needed debate, even if it was a surprise to approximately no one.
- Stranger43 5y agoPart of the context here is that Denmark like so many small European companies allowed the American military industrial complex to infiltrate it's military and security services to the point where it cannot actually operate independently an hence have to say yes when this kind of request comes in they cannot really refuse. And this is by design as the US military "tech transfer" projects like the JSF/F-35 is explicitly designed to lock recipients into an bond with the US military/strategic establishment.
- xorcist 5y agoIt's important note that this intelligence exchange program took place between 2012 and 2016 and the stated suspicion is that it directly helped Lockheed secure the F35 contract. This is short term thinking. It only helps those who wants to weaken the links between EU and the US.
- doe88 5y agoAt this point I wouldn't be surprised if at the same time NSA had for instance a concurrent program running along with for instance Germany (or any other EU country for that matter) to spy any other european countries, including Danemark. Bellum omnium contra omnes, "the war of all against all".
- missingstep1 5y agoWhy Europe does not develop a new system to encode/encrypt communications?, that would make tapping the line useless.
- KMag 5y agoNo new systems need to be developed, only a will to deploy existing systems. To the best of public knowledge, Curve25519 with AES-GCM or ChaCha20-Poly1305 is good enough to keep the NSA out for years. These are available in TLS, OpenVPN, and WireGuard. Longer term, TLS, OpenVPN, and WireGuard all need to standardize post-quantum key exchange (such as Chrome's TLS experiment to run Curve25519 and RLWE key agreement protocols in parallel and run both outputs through the final key derivation function). But, for today, the main problem is deployment.
- gccs 5y agoThe math behind encryption cannot be broken. But the implementations can. When you have so many math PhDs attacking crypto implementations, you are bound to find a bug you can exploit. Look how long heartbleed was around.
- GordonS 5y agoIf you are the security services, with an unlimited budget and carte blanche to do whatever you like, then you can covertly place equipment at either end of the communication. If the equipment is in your country, you can coerce the company to install your equipment under the guide of "national security".
- parsimo2010 5y agoThe system as currently designed in most Western democracies (Denmark and the USA included) puts the intelligence agencies under the oversight of elected officials. You can't put intelligence operations to a public referendum without revealing critical information. So the people trust their elected officials to be the select few who get to see what is going on and keep a secret, but also act in the country's interest by directing the intelligence operations through policy making and funding decisions. The scandal here isn't that the NSA is spying on people, that is their job; everyone should expect every government other than their own to spy on them if they can. So then the scandal must be that the FE were helping spy on their allies. If the Danish people don't like this operation they should vote for new politicians. But don't be surprised when the new politicians get into office, have a discussion with the FE about why they cooperated with the NSA, and then choose to continue the activity (which the public won't discover for another decade). Denmark gets a benefit from it too. They open the doors to the NSA, and the NSA uses some capabilities that a smaller organization like the FE doesn't have. Then the NSA shares information back to the FE. Denmark's politicians end up better informed due to this partnership and are less likely to be caught off guard in negotiations with their neighbors. Remember, every other country is spying on Denmark as well. Don't believe for a second that when Germany (or whomever) complains about their Prime Minister's phone being tapped that they've never tried to intercept communications from other countries. That's all just posturing; this is a giant stone throwing competition in a giant glass house. In public, every politician from every country is throwing accusations and hoping they aren't next up to have a whistleblower reveal what they are doing. No politician is going to stop their country's spying because it puts them at a disadvantage. They are elected to protect their country's interests. Tl;dr: the only surprising thing here is that the public found out, this isn't going to stop even if you elect new politicians because this is what they are elected to do.
- nytgop77 5y agoI kind of get tehe argument, but at the same time my thinfoil hat says, that newly elected officials during talk with FE get the message "we will leak and/or fabricate your xyz, if you make a move against us".
- chalst 5y agoFrom Deutsche Welle - https://www.dw.com/en/danish-secret-service-helped-us-spy-on-germanys-angela-merkel-report/a-57721901 https://www.dw.com/en/danish-secret-service-helped-us-spy-on... > The FE also cooperated with the NSA on spying operations against the US government itself.
- tuyguntn 5y agoIf democracy made western countries great at the beginning, now I can foresee western countries fall soon, because governments are distancing more and more from democracy and freedom of people. I should start learning Mandarin to be competitive in upcoming future workforce.
- AegirLeet 5y agoThe US is an out of control rogue state and nobody's doing a thing about it.
- peoplefromibiza 5y agoI was tricked by the US media to believe that the Danish were looking for online trolls, while instead they were spying us https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/zi1v0u/south-park-douche-and-a-danish-season-20-ep-5 https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/zi1v0u/south-park-... /s
- JI00912 5y agoWell what on earth else do people think intelligence services do? It's like... BREAKING NEWS: McDonald's found selling burgers!
- Shadonototro 5y agoEU leaders are weak, they'll continue act like blind slaves Makes me laugh everytime i think about how facebook stole europe's idea (libra), thanks weak leaders
- hiram112 5y agoWhat was it that Zuckerberg allegedly said? "If Europe had invented Facebook, they would have invented Facebook".
- Shadonototro 5y agoyou act like the blind EU leaders you swallow what ever USA says, and you deny what ever bad thing they do to you they get the lead, you bow, worse, you endorse them, without questioning how the fuck they keep getting the lead you BDSM lover, except they don't like you, but you don't care, since you are a blind slave
- dirtyid 5y agoWhat does Denmark get in return? Better f35 prices? Hot goss on fellow EU countries? Do Danes have geopolitical competitors?
- yummybear 5y agoEveryones angry at Denmark for enabling, but US did the spying... Not saying that clears DK, but at least 90% of the outrage should be directed there.
- nix23 5y agoUS is outside and can spy whatever they want, Denmark on the other way is "in theory" part of the European-Family, if a "friend" sells you out to someone else, who is the traitor?
- sandrone 5y agosaid the Danish intelligence guy hoping to shift the blame
- Semaphor 5y agoIt was a huge scandal back then. But it already was one. The new part is that Denmark enabled them. And I would say it had a decent part in the Anti-USA sentiment in Germany.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoI would suspect that Denmark also helped European gather data on US officials as well.
- markus_zhang 5y agoEverything boils down whether European aristocracies would like to continue being the vassals of their lords in the United States. I think they still prefer that option and won't change their stance in the near future.