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Short of outright banning Chinese products like the US did with Huawei I don't see how you can compete with the Chinese when they make things faster, cheaper, a

by ncann 5y ago

Short of outright banning Chinese products like the US did with Huawei I don't see how you can compete with the Chinese when they make things faster, cheaper, and with minimal quality loss. The last point about quality is even debatable.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Tarrifs to compensate for when China uses underpaid labor, slave labor, or ignores environmental regulations. Lots of way to level the playing field with policy that gates access to a market. If you can still make products faster and cheaper while adhering to the rules businesses in the developed world have to, congrats! You’ll succeed.
- h0l0cube 5y ago
  Problem is those human rights violations permit slimmer production costs. More to that China has the supply chains and skilled labor necessary to build world class high tech manufacturing that further reduces costs. Sanctions are the only real way to incentivize China to improve its workers' rights such that the rest of the world doesn't have to lower its own to compete.
rkhassen9 5y ago
Lol. Above message sponsored? Might have written "resistance is futile" Just give up? No way man.
- h0l0cube 5y ago
  They're not exactly wrong. Even if tariffs increase enough for manufacturing capability to be restored in the US, factories will struggle to find the labor (Americans seem disinterested in such work), and the parts and maintenance supply chains will still be dependent on China.
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    In the short term, but no reason we couldn’t in the long-term. Right now, we have some manufacturing for N95 masks that started in 2020 and predictably they’re struggling. We’re still in the midst of a pandemic and hospitals are not securing locally manufactured supplies. Culprit? Dumping of masks into the local supply chain by China. It’s insane what we’re allowing to happen.
  - jfengel 5y ago
    I thought Americans liked manufacturing labor. As I understand it, it's mostly farm labor that's accused of being "don't want to do". Farm labor is dirty, dangerous, and uncomfortable. Manufacturing isn't exactly fun but it used to be the dream job for low-skilled employees who wanted a lifetime occupation. That problem, I've heard, is the rest of it: labor was cheaper elsewhere, and now that we've outsourced so much, we lack the infrastructure. I suspect we could do it, if we chose, and the labor would be there. But it would require a ton of money up front, setting up not just one factory but an entire ecosystem. And even then it wouldn't be any cheaper; shipping advantages are more than outweighed by labor costs. (The labor is there, but there's a minimum wage, and they want it to be higher.) Maybe if there's a cycle time advantage, being able to get to market weeks earlier. But that's an entirely different kind of manufacturing.
    - h0l0cube 5y ago
      > As I understand it, it's mostly farm labor that's accused of being "don't want to do". It's probably more anecdotal at this stage. I have someone building a factory in my Twitter feed, and he's saying a lot of people in his networks are struggling to find willing workers, but he blames that on welfare payments for Covid (which could be just a temporary thing)

by ncann 5y ago

toomuchtodo 5y ago

Tarrifs to compensate for when China uses underpaid labor, slave labor, or ignores environmental regulations. Lots of way to level the playing field with policy that gates access to a market. If you can still make products faster and cheaper while adhering to the rules businesses in the developed world have to, congrats! You’ll succeed.

h0l0cube 5y ago
Problem is those human rights violations permit slimmer production costs. More to that China has the supply chains and skilled labor necessary to build world class high tech manufacturing that further reduces costs. Sanctions are the only real way to incentivize China to improve its workers' rights such that the rest of the world doesn't have to lower its own to compete.

rkhassen9 5y ago

Lol. Above message sponsored? Might have written "resistance is futile" Just give up? No way man.

h0l0cube 5y ago
They're not exactly wrong. Even if tariffs increase enough for manufacturing capability to be restored in the US, factories will struggle to find the labor (Americans seem disinterested in such work), and the parts and maintenance supply chains will still be dependent on China.
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  In the short term, but no reason we couldn’t in the long-term. Right now, we have some manufacturing for N95 masks that started in 2020 and predictably they’re struggling. We’re still in the midst of a pandemic and hospitals are not securing locally manufactured supplies. Culprit? Dumping of masks into the local supply chain by China. It’s insane what we’re allowing to happen.
- jfengel 5y ago
  I thought Americans liked manufacturing labor. As I understand it, it's mostly farm labor that's accused of being "don't want to do". Farm labor is dirty, dangerous, and uncomfortable. Manufacturing isn't exactly fun but it used to be the dream job for low-skilled employees who wanted a lifetime occupation. That problem, I've heard, is the rest of it: labor was cheaper elsewhere, and now that we've outsourced so much, we lack the infrastructure. I suspect we could do it, if we chose, and the labor would be there. But it would require a ton of money up front, setting up not just one factory but an entire ecosystem. And even then it wouldn't be any cheaper; shipping advantages are more than outweighed by labor costs. (The labor is there, but there's a minimum wage, and they want it to be higher.) Maybe if there's a cycle time advantage, being able to get to market weeks earlier. But that's an entirely different kind of manufacturing.
  - h0l0cube 5y ago
    > As I understand it, it's mostly farm labor that's accused of being "don't want to do". It's probably more anecdotal at this stage. I have someone building a factory in my Twitter feed, and he's saying a lot of people in his networks are struggling to find willing workers, but he blames that on welfare payments for Covid (which could be just a temporary thing)