4 ms·

The notion of boundary is just not helpful in explaining some phenomena. A virus RNA in nucleus of neurons in your brain is part of you or not? Is that alive o

The notion of boundary is just not helpful in explaining some phenomena. A virus RNA in nucleus of neurons in your brain is part of you or not? Is that alive or not? Conscious or not? The same way as an idea of a point particle breaks down in quantum physics, the idea of binary "you" and "not you" breaks down due to nature of reality.

lisper 5y ago
> A virus RNA in nucleus of neurons in your brain is part of you or not? Depends on the virus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus > Is that lump of physical matter conscious or not? Depends on the lump. The only lump of physical matter that I know with 100% certainty is conscious is me. But my consciousness produces behavior in me that is similar to behavior I observe in other lumps of physical matter. Furthermore, there's a lot of evidence that my consciousness is somehow bound to a particular physical structure, namely, my brain. So it seems reasonable to suppose that other lumps of physical matter that have brains and exhibit the kinds of behavior that I associate with my own consciousness also possess consciousness, and that lumps of physical matter that lack these things don't.
- Isinlor 5y ago
  So, how does it depend on the virus? When it is when it is not?
  - lisper 5y ago
    Because some viruses are ERVs and some are not. Those that are are "part of me" and those that aren't aren't. (Isn't that obvious?)
    - collyw 5y ago
      So it becomes part of you by integrating into your DNA? It's only going to be a fraction of your cells that contain that DNA. I don't see how that makes it any more you than a virus that doesn't integrate. Herpes stays in your system for life, and doesn't incorporate into DNA.
      - lisper 5y ago
        > It's only going to be a fraction of your cells that contain that DNA. No. ERVs are part of your genome.
        collyw 5y ago
        OK, that's an interesting case that I didn't know about, but it just shows how blurred the lines between genes, virus and transposons are. This is a virus that you can pass on to your children, but not others around you, correct? It's not what I was considering when taking about viruses, because of the infectious element. You have shifted my mental boundary about what is considered a virus. It looks like think something that is part of your genome is part of "you" - I won't argue that it isn't, it certainly is from one point of view. I don't plan to have children, so I have a different perspective on things.

lisper 5y ago

> A virus RNA in nucleus of neurons in your brain is part of you or not? Depends on the virus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus > Is that lump of physical matter conscious or not? Depends on the lump. The only lump of physical matter that I know with 100% certainty is conscious is me. But my consciousness produces behavior in me that is similar to behavior I observe in other lumps of physical matter. Furthermore, there's a lot of evidence that my consciousness is somehow bound to a particular physical structure, namely, my brain. So it seems reasonable to suppose that other lumps of physical matter that have brains and exhibit the kinds of behavior that I associate with my own consciousness also possess consciousness, and that lumps of physical matter that lack these things don't.

Isinlor 5y ago
So, how does it depend on the virus? When it is when it is not?
- lisper 5y ago
  Because some viruses are ERVs and some are not. Those that are are "part of me" and those that aren't aren't. (Isn't that obvious?)
  - collyw 5y ago
    So it becomes part of you by integrating into your DNA? It's only going to be a fraction of your cells that contain that DNA. I don't see how that makes it any more you than a virus that doesn't integrate. Herpes stays in your system for life, and doesn't incorporate into DNA.
    - lisper 5y ago
      > It's only going to be a fraction of your cells that contain that DNA. No. ERVs are part of your genome.
      - collyw 5y ago
        OK, that's an interesting case that I didn't know about, but it just shows how blurred the lines between genes, virus and transposons are. This is a virus that you can pass on to your children, but not others around you, correct? It's not what I was considering when taking about viruses, because of the infectious element. You have shifted my mental boundary about what is considered a virus. It looks like think something that is part of your genome is part of "you" - I won't argue that it isn't, it certainly is from one point of view. I don't plan to have children, so I have a different perspective on things.