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This started off as a fun article about "what's the most overkill way I can get this?" and then looking for second-hand fighter jet seats just for the shits and
by lucb1e 5y ago
This started off as a fun article about "what's the most overkill way I can get this?" and then looking for second-hand fighter jet seats just for the shits and giggles.
I like that.
But then it goes south from there, the author seems to believe that anything that isn't from the USA military must be crap:
> Made in the USA from military grade [...] preferably a military supplier [...] This is the real thing, used by the US military. [...]
> Consumer goods suck. You keep buying them. [emphasis theirs]
> The average consumer is an idiot, so the bean counters keep milking them.
So we're idiots for buying a regular knife instead of some military variant that makes you look like, well, someone who would carry a gun as well? Or regular napkins rather than some special cleanroom rated upgrade? I think I'm good, thanks.
- goatinaboat 5y ago“Military grade” means “made by the lowest bidder” in reality
- mahathu 5y agoLike the $7.63 a piece earplugs by 3M that turned out defective: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/jury-finds-3ms-earplugs-caused-us-military-vets-hearing-loss-2021-04-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/jury-finds-3ms-earplugs-cau...
- nraynaud 5y agoFrench military takes the second lowest as a rule. So much better.
- ansgri 5y agoVery clever, I assume it’s far more difficult to game the system unless you control two bidders.
- nraynaud 5y agoNo, they just talk to each other and take turns being the lowest one. I mean how many military equipment companies can you sustain with a country the size of California? Whatever your answer, above a certain pay grade, all employees come from a single engineering school anyways.
- mike50 5y agoFrance is a large exporter of weapons and aerospace products. Thales and Airbus are essentially based there.
- systemvoltage 5y agoDisagree. Picking any other bidder is foolish. If you’ve ever looked into military procurement, there are a number of MIL standards and a specific list of requirements. If the product meets specifications and testing results, picking anyone but the lowest bidder accounting for other “soft” commercial aspects such as company stability, leadership, and book health; would be foolish and irresponsible. I’ve seen several comments here that “military” grade means lowest bidder. That’s optimal. Look at it this way - consumer market is completely unregulated, no specifications and lots misleading terminology. Any Military would crucify you for fraud. Is it perfect? No. Is it close to perfection? Yes. Also look into medical grade things such as scissors.
- mysterydip 5y agoSometimes the lowest bidder is the lowest because they purposely underbid knowing they will have cost/schedule overruns later and the customer would rather throw good money after bad than start the process over with nothing to show. I like the second lowest bidder process mentioned elsewhere.
- systemvoltage 5y agoI’ve worked in procurement and let me tell you - there is a lot more than looking at a ranked list of bidders and going “oh look, lowest bidder. Job done, let’s go with these folks.” The caricature on HN is so incredibly misleading. Supplier selection is quite involved. The right term is “optimal”.
- Denvercoder9 5y agoThe irony here is that anyone who has actually served would gladly tell you that half the military grade stuff they had to deal with is utter junk.
- cf100clunk 5y agoIndeed, this concept that "military grade" quality is superior to consumer grade is mythological in many cases. It is all about the relative worthiness of the specification(s) to which the product is built, meaning that crappy specs yield crappy results, whether military or commercial. Also the amount of rework sometimes required on "military grade" gear to make it actually do its job is seldom publicized except in occasional oversight proceedings in some countries. So, "military grade" is a mysterious, mythological, misused quality.
- systemvoltage 5y agoTotally disagree. I’ve bought all kinds of items from surplus stores and Swiss military gear. Usually, better by a large margin. The only thing it suffers is aesthetics if you care about such things. These are all better in most cases: Medical grade Military grade Industrial grade Cleanroom grade (for some items) Marine grade Try looking into it.
- Grustaf 5y agoI use a Swiss "weapons bag" made in the 40s out of 8mm thick leather for my laptop, I love the aesthetics! Any links to places where I can get more Swiss military gear?
- mgarfias 5y agoI bought my knife from a delta force commando that retired and now makes knives. It’s beef.
- CRConrad 5y agoSo you had to get another one for cutting pork?
- renewiltord 5y agoMilitary grade end user shit is usually crap. It suffers from the same problem that so many IT departments have: the guy buying isn’t the guy using. In the market, competition is strong. In the military market, your connections are way more valuable.
- wyager 5y agoBeing made in the USA is absolutely a pretty good quality indicator. It’s not the only country that makes good stuff (most EU countries + Japan are good as well), but in the absence of domain expertise it’s a great heuristic.
- Ekaros 5y agoBuy expensive knife? Or I could buy 15 cheap ones and just replace them as I go... And it's not like those cheap ones can be sharpened if needed.
- weasel_words 5y agoThat sounds...really wasteful. Perhaps a happy medium? Maybe not $1500 Damascus knife, but maybe a nice Wüsthof so you're not throwing so much out, and damaging the environment.
- Ekaros 5y agoI'm talking about proper brand name construction knifes like Mora... Using the wrong tool for wrong job will break them, but used properly they aren't easy to break.
- samatman 5y agoI've found that Moras need a sharpen before they're really fit for duty. And at that point, may as well keep sharpening them. What's the point of having a Scandi grind carbon steel blade if you don't sharpen it? There is literally no easier geometry or grind, and who cares if you scratch it a little? I don't feel bad losing it (haven't) or breaking it (haven't) either. But taking a dull knife, letting it get duller, then tossing it, really doesn't sit right with me.
- zwaps 5y agoI am not really disagreeing with you. However, with knives, not any product will even work decently. You need good enough steel to take and then hold an edge. So it can not be super cheap steel with big particles, as you will never manage to get that knife sharp enough to use. On the other hand, super hard hrc+++ cheapo knives will also not do much for you. First, because they are rarely sharp and second, because in a kitchen environment where not every cut is going to be perfect and nice to the blade, the blade is going to be effed. It's gonna be sharp for lunch and a disaster by dinner. However, you are right that good knives for very little money are available. I have been using several Victorinox knives that are plyable and robust. They can be made very sharp without much effort, and stay that way for reasonable amounts of time. And that's the point. I don't really need to throw them away. They don't really look fancy, true. But they are in daily use since... six years? Eight? And the price difference to supermarket knives was probably 10-20 euros/dollars. Edit: And I say this as someone who has a random assortment of sharpening/honing utensils and really only barely knows what he is doing with them. Good midrange, perhaps not necessarily Wüsthof (aka the macrobrew of European knives), but other proven knive brands, is a very good option for people who don't do Sashimi every day.
- neilpanchal 5y agoAuthor here. I need to push back on this. This whole post is tongue in cheek, totally over-the-top and my way of doing things. I thought that was obvious including a lofty claim of an average consumer. People seem to be hung up on that. No one is calling you an idiot - and no, I have no romance for US military. Bought plenty of things from Swedish, Canadian and Swiss military and other industries. You’re unnecessarily painting a character picture that’s going with your biases, borderline politicizing it with gun ownership - I’d like you to think about this and reconsider how you judge people. For what it’s worth - I’ve also bought overkill items and they’ve turned out to be a disaster. For instance, for the TPI fan in the example - I had to get an industrial fan controller because it was too damn loud and restaurant grade containers that are not BPA-free.
- lucb1e 5y agoThat makes a lot more sense, thanks for commenting!
- s0rce 5y agoCleanroom wipes are actually great. I use them all the time in lab, no lint, often woven and super durable, chemical resistant fibers. Totally overkill for some, although I have taken some home when we had odd sized samples we didn't need and they make nice cleaning wipes.