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>the bill would prohibit election officials from sending absentee ballots to all voters, regardless of whether they had requested them; ban using tents, garages

>the bill would prohibit election officials from sending absentee ballots to all voters, regardless of whether they had requested them; ban using tents, garages, mobile units or any temporary structure as a polling location; further limit who could vote absentee; and add new identification requirements for voting by mail. >Partisan poll watchers would also have more access and autonomy under the bill’s provisions, and election officials could be more harshly punished if they make mistakes or otherwise run afoul of election codes and laws. Why does the United States allow anyone to vote without identification is a shocking question to be asking in 2021.

jacob2484 5y ago
Exactly - IDs are required for pretty much everything else we do. Voting should be no different.
- sweetheart 5y ago
  Do you still feel that way when considering how this would inhibit many people who cannot get IDs from voting? It's their right, no? Just because they don't have a means to obtain an ID doesn't mean their voice shouldn't carry weight in our democracy.
  - alkonaut 5y ago
    To be absolutely clear: I hope no one is suggesting that there should be any voter ID laws that aren’t preceded by ensuring people have ID (free, easy access). The voter ID discussion should be phrased as “assuming 99.9% have ID, do you think it’s a good idea to check it when voting?” The answer to that question is: “yes”. The other question (much less interesting!) is “assuming ID access and possession is as skewed as today, is it a good idea to require ID for voting?”. The answer to that question is an equally easy “No”.
  - chrismcb 5y ago
    Why can't they get an id?
    - gremlinsinc 5y ago
      Cost. If it's $25, that's too much for some people. Time cost. If they work 8-5, or two jobs, they can't get time off to go get an id. That's just a few off the top of my head.
boomboomsubban 5y ago
Because poll taxes are unconstitutional.
- klyrs 5y ago
  That does seem to be a lynchpin in many of the rulings against voter ID requirements. There's an obvious workaround: the elimination of fees for ID. That's curiously aligned with the party goal of cutting taxes, but for some reason I never see that come up in this kind of legislation.
jeffbee 5y ago
You need to identify yourself to register to vote, and to vote you have to arrive at the poll, state your name and address, and sign a sworn statement. The system is practically impossible to abuse, evidenced by the fact that there have been almost no documented cases of anyone abusing it. The reason identification laws are bad is because they disproportionately affect black people, who are less likely to have state identification, and that is because there are many people still alive today who were born in counties that literally refused to issue birth certificates to black people. It is very easy for someone to just sit there behind a computer and question why someone might not have government identification, but think it through.
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  >You need to identify yourself to register to vote, and to vote you have to arrive at the poll, state your name and address, and sign a sworn statement. The system is practically impossible to abuse, evidenced by the fact that there have been almost no documented cases of anyone abusing it. Or it's because it's rarely caught and charges are rarely pressed: https://www.wsj.com/articles/voter-fraud-a-myth-thats-not-what-new-york-investigators-found-1485994200 https://www.wsj.com/articles/voter-fraud-a-myth-thats-not-wh... 61 out of 63 attempts to vote fraudulently were successful, and one was rejected only because the poll worker happened to be the mother of the person they were trying to fraudulently vote as. Until there's widespread and thorough pentesting of the election systems in various states it's impossible to say at what rate fraud does or does not occur.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    Who cares? Retail one-at-a-time vote fraud doesn't scale, is extremely risky (it's a felony) and doesn't happen at problematic levels. On the other hand, disenfranchising the 13% of black Americans who lack a photo ID is obviously going to swing elections.
    - HideousKojima 5y ago
      There's plenty of ways to commit voter fraud. The fact that the most blatant and easy to catch was so successful should be worrisome to anyone.
SonicScrub 5y ago
The US does not have any universally available form of government ID that is automatically given freely to all citizens, therefore any piece of photo id is behind a paywall of some kind. Voting should not be limited to only those who hold a passport, or a driver's license, etc. Other democracies have very liberal requirements on what constitutes an ID, and they do just fine. For example, here's the list of acceptable identification documents to participate in Canadian elections. https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&do... The list covers everything from parolee cards, health cards (which are issued free of charge), firearm licenses, to letters of residency from a homeless shelter/soup kitchen, thus ensuring everyone can vote regardless of which walk of life they are from. It's also worth noting that this law is not being passed in good faith to protect the integrity of elections, as there is little to no evidence that there is a threat. It is a partisan attempt to limit the voting rights of groups that for various reasons typically don't have identification cards, as there is significant overlap between those people and those who tend to vote in opposition to the those currently in power.
- moistly 5y ago
  It is disconcerting that your post, which is factual in every statement, is downvoted. Truth is downvoted on Hacker News? That is fucked-up behaviour. We can be better than this.
cpgxiii 5y ago
If all US states had free, easy-to-use programs to ensure that all residents had useful government-provided ID, or a common, free, federally-provided ID, this wouldn't be an issue. However, that is not the case, and so long as the requirement to have an ID costs money, it effectively amounts to a poll tax that serves to suppress low-income voters. In practice, most people in most states probably do vote with IDs, since providing your ID is the easiest way for the poll workers to find your registration. And of course in the processes most people use to register to vote, some (if not multiple) form(s) of identification must generally be provided. The reality is that no significant ID-solved voter fraud exists in the US, so while nice in principle, voter ID laws only serve to suppress voter turnout.
uniacid 5y ago
>Why does the United States allow anyone to vote without identification is a shocking question to be asking in 2021. I feel this is a huge misconception, everyone has to identify for the most part to get your voter registration card for example, so to claim we are allowing votes without identification is false. Voter registration usually also includes your signature which is verified on all ballots mailed or otherwise. For example last year I had to verify that my ballot was actually coming from me since they questioned my signature as it was an old signature I used. I sent in the proper documents to update said signature and prove I am who I said I was and it was done and over with.
sergers 5y ago
Not sure the downvotes. As a non-american(as this is a worldwide site), I was literally wondering the same thing. Having no form of identification? That's crazy... Not knowing the specific challenges. In Canada you don't need to have "ID" as govt form of identification, you still need to be able to identify yourself. They offer 3 options. Passport/driver's license/provincial I'd card. Then if you don't have that, there are secondary items like student id + utility bill, or indigenous status card. Then lastly, you can have someone who does have ID vouch for u. "You can still vote if you declare your identity and address in writing and have someone who knows you and who is assigned to your polling station vouch for you. The voucher must be able to prove their identity and address. A person can vouch for only one person (except in long-term care institutions)." Source: https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&do...
bioinformatics 5y ago
Same reason they use Fahrenheit and Imperial measurements.

jacob2484 5y ago

Exactly - IDs are required for pretty much everything else we do. Voting should be no different.

sweetheart 5y ago
Do you still feel that way when considering how this would inhibit many people who cannot get IDs from voting? It's their right, no? Just because they don't have a means to obtain an ID doesn't mean their voice shouldn't carry weight in our democracy.
- alkonaut 5y ago
  To be absolutely clear: I hope no one is suggesting that there should be any voter ID laws that aren’t preceded by ensuring people have ID (free, easy access). The voter ID discussion should be phrased as “assuming 99.9% have ID, do you think it’s a good idea to check it when voting?” The answer to that question is: “yes”. The other question (much less interesting!) is “assuming ID access and possession is as skewed as today, is it a good idea to require ID for voting?”. The answer to that question is an equally easy “No”.
- chrismcb 5y ago
  Why can't they get an id?
  - gremlinsinc 5y ago
    Cost. If it's $25, that's too much for some people. Time cost. If they work 8-5, or two jobs, they can't get time off to go get an id. That's just a few off the top of my head.

boomboomsubban 5y ago

Because poll taxes are unconstitutional.

klyrs 5y ago
That does seem to be a lynchpin in many of the rulings against voter ID requirements. There's an obvious workaround: the elimination of fees for ID. That's curiously aligned with the party goal of cutting taxes, but for some reason I never see that come up in this kind of legislation.

jeffbee 5y ago

You need to identify yourself to register to vote, and to vote you have to arrive at the poll, state your name and address, and sign a sworn statement. The system is practically impossible to abuse, evidenced by the fact that there have been almost no documented cases of anyone abusing it. The reason identification laws are bad is because they disproportionately affect black people, who are less likely to have state identification, and that is because there are many people still alive today who were born in counties that literally refused to issue birth certificates to black people. It is very easy for someone to just sit there behind a computer and question why someone might not have government identification, but think it through.

HideousKojima 5y ago
>You need to identify yourself to register to vote, and to vote you have to arrive at the poll, state your name and address, and sign a sworn statement. The system is practically impossible to abuse, evidenced by the fact that there have been almost no documented cases of anyone abusing it. Or it's because it's rarely caught and charges are rarely pressed: https://www.wsj.com/articles/voter-fraud-a-myth-thats-not-what-new-york-investigators-found-1485994200 https://www.wsj.com/articles/voter-fraud-a-myth-thats-not-wh... 61 out of 63 attempts to vote fraudulently were successful, and one was rejected only because the poll worker happened to be the mother of the person they were trying to fraudulently vote as. Until there's widespread and thorough pentesting of the election systems in various states it's impossible to say at what rate fraud does or does not occur.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  Who cares? Retail one-at-a-time vote fraud doesn't scale, is extremely risky (it's a felony) and doesn't happen at problematic levels. On the other hand, disenfranchising the 13% of black Americans who lack a photo ID is obviously going to swing elections.
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    There's plenty of ways to commit voter fraud. The fact that the most blatant and easy to catch was so successful should be worrisome to anyone.

SonicScrub 5y ago

The US does not have any universally available form of government ID that is automatically given freely to all citizens, therefore any piece of photo id is behind a paywall of some kind. Voting should not be limited to only those who hold a passport, or a driver's license, etc. Other democracies have very liberal requirements on what constitutes an ID, and they do just fine. For example, here's the list of acceptable identification documents to participate in Canadian elections. https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&do... The list covers everything from parolee cards, health cards (which are issued free of charge), firearm licenses, to letters of residency from a homeless shelter/soup kitchen, thus ensuring everyone can vote regardless of which walk of life they are from. It's also worth noting that this law is not being passed in good faith to protect the integrity of elections, as there is little to no evidence that there is a threat. It is a partisan attempt to limit the voting rights of groups that for various reasons typically don't have identification cards, as there is significant overlap between those people and those who tend to vote in opposition to the those currently in power.

moistly 5y ago
It is disconcerting that your post, which is factual in every statement, is downvoted. Truth is downvoted on Hacker News? That is fucked-up behaviour. We can be better than this.

cpgxiii 5y ago

If all US states had free, easy-to-use programs to ensure that all residents had useful government-provided ID, or a common, free, federally-provided ID, this wouldn't be an issue. However, that is not the case, and so long as the requirement to have an ID costs money, it effectively amounts to a poll tax that serves to suppress low-income voters. In practice, most people in most states probably do vote with IDs, since providing your ID is the easiest way for the poll workers to find your registration. And of course in the processes most people use to register to vote, some (if not multiple) form(s) of identification must generally be provided. The reality is that no significant ID-solved voter fraud exists in the US, so while nice in principle, voter ID laws only serve to suppress voter turnout.

uniacid 5y ago

>Why does the United States allow anyone to vote without identification is a shocking question to be asking in 2021. I feel this is a huge misconception, everyone has to identify for the most part to get your voter registration card for example, so to claim we are allowing votes without identification is false. Voter registration usually also includes your signature which is verified on all ballots mailed or otherwise. For example last year I had to verify that my ballot was actually coming from me since they questioned my signature as it was an old signature I used. I sent in the proper documents to update said signature and prove I am who I said I was and it was done and over with.

sergers 5y ago

Not sure the downvotes. As a non-american(as this is a worldwide site), I was literally wondering the same thing. Having no form of identification? That's crazy... Not knowing the specific challenges. In Canada you don't need to have "ID" as govt form of identification, you still need to be able to identify yourself. They offer 3 options. Passport/driver's license/provincial I'd card. Then if you don't have that, there are secondary items like student id + utility bill, or indigenous status card. Then lastly, you can have someone who does have ID vouch for u. "You can still vote if you declare your identity and address in writing and have someone who knows you and who is assigned to your polling station vouch for you. The voucher must be able to prove their identity and address. A person can vouch for only one person (except in long-term care institutions)." Source: https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&do...

bioinformatics 5y ago

Same reason they use Fahrenheit and Imperial measurements.