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There’s probably a lot of money for the first person who figures out how to solve this problem instead of complaining about evil uncaring business owners. Cost

by jquery 5y ago

There’s probably a lot of money for the first person who figures out how to solve this problem instead of complaining about evil uncaring business owners. Costco kinda figured it out, by charging a membership fee they got rid of most low LTV customers from the get-go. Unfortunately, their generous refund policy still got hacked by bad actors which is why they have a lot of restrictions around returning electronics. (People were returning laptops after a year of use just to upgrade). This is why we can’t have nice things. source: I worked at Costco before they had restrictions on their electronics return policy, when they bragged about accepting returns on anything for any reason… before the cost of doing so became prohibitively high. LTV refunding like Amazon is doing is a huge leap forward that lets every business kind of act like Costco.

throwawayboise 5y ago
If their refund policy was literally "accepting returns on anything for any reason" how is it "hacking" to return a laptop after a year?
- blihp 5y ago
  That policy assumed good faith on the part of the consumer. The original thinking was likely 'OK, if they return it after <timeframe> it's because it was a lemon/never worked right/etc' rather than for abusive reasons like 'TV returned right after Superbowl Sunday' (because they had their party and no longer need it) or 'returned laptop after 6 months' (because the school/work project ended and they no longer need it) So the assumption baked into the policy was that buyers wanted to legitimately own the thing they purchased rather than using the refund policy as a way to get a free short/intermediate term lease. You seem to be saying 'well they did say any reason' and that good faith on the part of the buyer didn't/shouldn't enter into it. Yes they did, and people behaved the way they did. Now the generous refund policy no longer exists. See how that works?
  - secabeen 5y ago
    Yep. The same thing happened with LLBean. They used to offer lifetime returns/warranty replacement on all items, which worked when people acted in good faith. After many decades of this policy, a gray market of used LLBean items emerged, people would buy multi-decade-old used LLBean items, then "return" them as worn out for a new one or even a full refund. It became a whole cottage industry, and they now have a one-year limit on their any-reason return policy. People suck, especially when they are disconnected from the human side of business.
  - jquery 5y ago
    The policy even assumed some amount of semi-bad faith behavior, the thinking was their return policy was also a bit of a charity program for the needy and destitute[1] (a Costco member lost their job and so returns a bunch of items for cash, etc). What they didn’t anticipate was the sheer number of people who began acting in bad faith (and the deflationary nature of electronics making it especially tempting), it was too much to bear. It’s a shame the policy is gone. There was really no peace of mind quite like it, knowing that if your device failed after years of use, but still due to a defect, you had recourse. And for poor people, it was a godsend of a program especially (and not because it could be abused, but simply Costco providing a service that anything you buy will work as advertised) [1]source: some internal training I received back in 1998
noduerme 5y ago
Well said. And "This is why we can't have nice things" sums up this whole thread pretty neatly.
smsm42 5y ago
I love Costco return policy and we bought a lot of stuff there just because "well, if we don't like it we can just return it anytime" (and we did like it and never returned it) over the years, but I've seen some ridiculous returns there. From people treating returns as a zero-cost rentals to buying a tree, failing to water it until it's dead and then returning it. They still have very generous policy and I would hate to see it ruined by people who're just taking an unfair advantage of it and ruining it for everybody.

by jquery 5y ago

throwawayboise 5y ago

If their refund policy was literally "accepting returns on anything for any reason" how is it "hacking" to return a laptop after a year?

blihp 5y ago
That policy assumed good faith on the part of the consumer. The original thinking was likely 'OK, if they return it after <timeframe> it's because it was a lemon/never worked right/etc' rather than for abusive reasons like 'TV returned right after Superbowl Sunday' (because they had their party and no longer need it) or 'returned laptop after 6 months' (because the school/work project ended and they no longer need it) So the assumption baked into the policy was that buyers wanted to legitimately own the thing they purchased rather than using the refund policy as a way to get a free short/intermediate term lease. You seem to be saying 'well they did say any reason' and that good faith on the part of the buyer didn't/shouldn't enter into it. Yes they did, and people behaved the way they did. Now the generous refund policy no longer exists. See how that works?
- secabeen 5y ago
  Yep. The same thing happened with LLBean. They used to offer lifetime returns/warranty replacement on all items, which worked when people acted in good faith. After many decades of this policy, a gray market of used LLBean items emerged, people would buy multi-decade-old used LLBean items, then "return" them as worn out for a new one or even a full refund. It became a whole cottage industry, and they now have a one-year limit on their any-reason return policy. People suck, especially when they are disconnected from the human side of business.
- jquery 5y ago
  The policy even assumed some amount of semi-bad faith behavior, the thinking was their return policy was also a bit of a charity program for the needy and destitute[1] (a Costco member lost their job and so returns a bunch of items for cash, etc). What they didn’t anticipate was the sheer number of people who began acting in bad faith (and the deflationary nature of electronics making it especially tempting), it was too much to bear. It’s a shame the policy is gone. There was really no peace of mind quite like it, knowing that if your device failed after years of use, but still due to a defect, you had recourse. And for poor people, it was a godsend of a program especially (and not because it could be abused, but simply Costco providing a service that anything you buy will work as advertised) [1]source: some internal training I received back in 1998

noduerme 5y ago

Well said. And "This is why we can't have nice things" sums up this whole thread pretty neatly.

smsm42 5y ago

I love Costco return policy and we bought a lot of stuff there just because "well, if we don't like it we can just return it anytime" (and we did like it and never returned it) over the years, but I've seen some ridiculous returns there. From people treating returns as a zero-cost rentals to buying a tree, failing to water it until it's dead and then returning it. They still have very generous policy and I would hate to see it ruined by people who're just taking an unfair advantage of it and ruining it for everybody.