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>Amazon founder Jeff Bezos knew that the number one pain point for online buyers is shipping I disagree. I can't speak for everyone, but for me I want to know

>Amazon founder Jeff Bezos knew that the number one pain point for online buyers is shipping I disagree. I can't speak for everyone, but for me I want to know the full price of something as soon as possible. Most online/mail order retailers used "shipping" as an opportunity to milk customers for a few more dollars as the amount charged really didn't reflect how much it cost to ship an item. Customers are well aware today that "free shipping" just means "shipping included". I think this is one thing Amazon has pioneered that is actually GREAT for customers. I would rather see a law passed that makes it illegal to add more fees than the first price you see (after choosing a non-specific shipping location). It'd still be legal to subtract from that to combine on shipping of multiple items, but never add.

chrisseaton 5y ago
Sounds like you agree, not disagree then? This single simplified price is the point.
- Retric 5y ago
  You don’t see the final price in US stores it’s all + sales tax. Except concession stands can magically tell you the actual price. His point is all online stores can do the same thing as soon as they have your address. That’s not what the market wants.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > His point is all online stores can do the same thing as soon as they have your address. Right… so agreeing then?
    - Retric 5y ago
      No, because they are incentivized not to. The point is customers are willing to pay for hidden fees otherwise online stores wouldn’t separate things out. It’s the same reason airlines added all those fees, people prefer to minimize sticker shock rather than minimize actual costs.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        But not doing this is what Bezos thinks as well. That’s why he collapses all costs into a single price. He’s in agreement.
        Retric 5y ago
        Except that’s not what he’s doing, Amazon prime acts like a giant hidden fee. Don’t pay it and Amazon still charges separately for shipping and handing.
      - cptskippy 5y ago
        Customers don't want that, they don't have a choice in the matter. The reason fees, taxes, shipping, handling, and everything else are hidden is because that's how retailers compete with each other on price. They hide the true cost from the customer and make them jump through hoops to determine the actual price. By the time you've provided all of your information to determine the final price, it's easier to complete the sale than go elsewhere. If customers had all of that information up front they could compare prices between retailers easily. When has anyone ever said "gee I'm sure glad Comcast hid those $25 in equipment rental fees and regulatory fees from me so I could avoid sticker shock"
  - gamblor956 5y ago
    Whether a concessions stand includes the tax in the listed price depends very heavily on the particular stand in question. Very few do. The overwhelming majority don't. For example, the concessions stands at my local movie theaters (representing 3 of the 4 major chains), and the 9 local professionals sports teams, do not include sales tax in the listed price. Sales tax is levied separately. In many cases, that is because local law requires the sales tax to be listed separately on the receipt. (For example, in GST and GET jurisdictions, the tax charge must be broken out separately to be passed on to the customer.) However, if the price you see is the price you pay and it's a round number, that concessions stand probably isn't bothering to collect sales tax at all. A lot of times that's because they sell items that are not subject to sales tax alongside items that are, and don't bother to keep track of the separate buckets. For an example of why they wouldn't: cold prepared foods can be taxed differently from hot prepared foods; packaged items are taxed differently from prepared foods; foods prepared on-site can be taxed differently from freshly-prepared foods prepared at another location; a food that includes a particular ingredient may be subject to sales tax but that same food without the ingredient may not be, etc. A large concessions stand, like the kind you would find at a baseball stadium, has the resources to figure this out. The mom-and-pop stand does not.
  - gmiller123456 5y ago
    I also think stores should have to add in sales tax, and all other fees, into the price you see. I know some entities are exempt from sales tax, but they are the exception and it can be subtracted off for them. But there's no reason not to have tax included in the original price in a retail store, it's actually extra work to not include it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Having worked on systems that vendors use to ship products, there's a reason it's called "shipping and handling." The shipping cost is usually calculated immediately via an API from the shipping company. The handling cost is whatever you want to tack on after shipping is calculated.
015a 5y ago
You're effectively asking for the government to legislate screwing over customers. Yes, shipping can be used as an opportunity to milk customers for a few extra dollars. Let's flip it and build it into the price of the item. You buy two of these items. The seller ships them together; there's a few cents in cost due to extra weight, but otherwise, they're pocketing that extra $X the 2nd item had set aside for shipping. Upfront priced shipping literally only and exclusively benefits the consumer when you buy one thing (or, if the seller is an idiot and ships one item per box, which never happens). And even then, it doesn't benefit the customer more than backside-calculated shipping, its just slightly more convenient. My Etsy shop makes hundreds of dollars just on this oddity in consumer behavior; that they're more likely to buy something if it has free shipping, so we'll just tack on $4 to the price of each item. A consumer comes along and buys three things; they just paid $12 for "shipping". We put them all in one box, pay USPS $3.50, and pocket the remaining ~$8.
- gmiller123456 5y ago
  I specifically said retailers should be able to reduce the cost for multiple items.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Amortise it. How much does your shipping cost you per year? Set your profit margin high enough to cover that. Why do anything more complicated than that? People don't want to be bothered with shipping costs. They just want to get the item.

chrisseaton 5y ago

Sounds like you agree, not disagree then? This single simplified price is the point.

Retric 5y ago
You don’t see the final price in US stores it’s all + sales tax. Except concession stands can magically tell you the actual price. His point is all online stores can do the same thing as soon as they have your address. That’s not what the market wants.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > His point is all online stores can do the same thing as soon as they have your address. Right… so agreeing then?
  - Retric 5y ago
    No, because they are incentivized not to. The point is customers are willing to pay for hidden fees otherwise online stores wouldn’t separate things out. It’s the same reason airlines added all those fees, people prefer to minimize sticker shock rather than minimize actual costs.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      But not doing this is what Bezos thinks as well. That’s why he collapses all costs into a single price. He’s in agreement.
      - Retric 5y ago
        Except that’s not what he’s doing, Amazon prime acts like a giant hidden fee. Don’t pay it and Amazon still charges separately for shipping and handing.
    - cptskippy 5y ago
      Customers don't want that, they don't have a choice in the matter. The reason fees, taxes, shipping, handling, and everything else are hidden is because that's how retailers compete with each other on price. They hide the true cost from the customer and make them jump through hoops to determine the actual price. By the time you've provided all of your information to determine the final price, it's easier to complete the sale than go elsewhere. If customers had all of that information up front they could compare prices between retailers easily. When has anyone ever said "gee I'm sure glad Comcast hid those $25 in equipment rental fees and regulatory fees from me so I could avoid sticker shock"
- gamblor956 5y ago
  Whether a concessions stand includes the tax in the listed price depends very heavily on the particular stand in question. Very few do. The overwhelming majority don't. For example, the concessions stands at my local movie theaters (representing 3 of the 4 major chains), and the 9 local professionals sports teams, do not include sales tax in the listed price. Sales tax is levied separately. In many cases, that is because local law requires the sales tax to be listed separately on the receipt. (For example, in GST and GET jurisdictions, the tax charge must be broken out separately to be passed on to the customer.) However, if the price you see is the price you pay and it's a round number, that concessions stand probably isn't bothering to collect sales tax at all. A lot of times that's because they sell items that are not subject to sales tax alongside items that are, and don't bother to keep track of the separate buckets. For an example of why they wouldn't: cold prepared foods can be taxed differently from hot prepared foods; packaged items are taxed differently from prepared foods; foods prepared on-site can be taxed differently from freshly-prepared foods prepared at another location; a food that includes a particular ingredient may be subject to sales tax but that same food without the ingredient may not be, etc. A large concessions stand, like the kind you would find at a baseball stadium, has the resources to figure this out. The mom-and-pop stand does not.
- gmiller123456 5y ago
  I also think stores should have to add in sales tax, and all other fees, into the price you see. I know some entities are exempt from sales tax, but they are the exception and it can be subtracted off for them. But there's no reason not to have tax included in the original price in a retail store, it's actually extra work to not include it.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

Having worked on systems that vendors use to ship products, there's a reason it's called "shipping and handling." The shipping cost is usually calculated immediately via an API from the shipping company. The handling cost is whatever you want to tack on after shipping is calculated.

015a 5y ago

You're effectively asking for the government to legislate screwing over customers. Yes, shipping can be used as an opportunity to milk customers for a few extra dollars. Let's flip it and build it into the price of the item. You buy two of these items. The seller ships them together; there's a few cents in cost due to extra weight, but otherwise, they're pocketing that extra $X the 2nd item had set aside for shipping. Upfront priced shipping literally only and exclusively benefits the consumer when you buy one thing (or, if the seller is an idiot and ships one item per box, which never happens). And even then, it doesn't benefit the customer more than backside-calculated shipping, its just slightly more convenient. My Etsy shop makes hundreds of dollars just on this oddity in consumer behavior; that they're more likely to buy something if it has free shipping, so we'll just tack on $4 to the price of each item. A consumer comes along and buys three things; they just paid $12 for "shipping". We put them all in one box, pay USPS $3.50, and pocket the remaining ~$8.

gmiller123456 5y ago
I specifically said retailers should be able to reduce the cost for multiple items.
chrisseaton 5y ago
Amortise it. How much does your shipping cost you per year? Set your profit margin high enough to cover that. Why do anything more complicated than that? People don't want to be bothered with shipping costs. They just want to get the item.