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This sounds like what should happen, irrespective of the seller? You can claim you got an empty box, but everyone's on the internet here, and pictures of an em

This sounds like what should happen, irrespective of the seller? You can claim you got an empty box, but everyone's on the internet here, and pictures of an empty box with indignation as guide text gets you fake internet points on every social media site. That alone isn't enough for any seller to take your claim as true until you take the necessary steps that come with "I've been defrauded", like filing that credit card dispute and police report. Which they did, after which Amazon accepted the dispute, so... where's the news angle here? "Store honours a $7k claim without questioning it" would almost be more newsworthy.

celeritascelery 5y ago
But the shipper (UPS) had a record of the package weighing only 2 pounds. That is hard evidence that the device was not present when shipped.
- LeCow 5y ago
  And that's why they won their fraud dispute... There will always be a generic and broad policy first. Then it will - and did - get resolved on further investigation.
- TheRealPomax 5y ago
  Yes, and without a case file that evidence counts for exactly nothing. When it's this much money, you get to go to the police, report fraud, and back it up with the UPS shipping information. Now you now have case number and legally recognized evidence that you can take to the seller, so that they can be reasonably sure you're not just trying to get free money. Because again, it's the internet, just doctoring a UPS web page and printing your own shipping label is trivial for anyone who stands to me $7000 if they get away with it.
hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
>The Chiles filed a credit card dispute and made a crime report, and after The Denver Channel made its own inquiries and the Chiles tried emailing Amazon owner Jeff Bezos directly, Amazon relented and said that the $7,000 will be refunded once the credit card dispute had been resolved. It sounds like Amazon refused to refund their money until the media got involved. Also, even if that were not the case, a big part of what Amazon sells is convenience and (supposedly) great customer service. If you pay $7,000 only to receive an empty box, and you provide Amazon with evidence from UPS that the box's weight was less than the weight of the actual product, that should be all it takes to get your money back. Jumping through hoops with your credit card company and filing a police report should be the last resort for dealing with shitty companies that won't listen to anything but threats. There is no reason that the buyer should have to do that when dealing with a reputable company, especially when they have evidence from the shipper that the box did not contain the product they ordered.
- TheRealPomax 5y ago
  Let's be clear: emailing the CEO and pretending that was a smart move is just idiotic. The article reads like they followed the standard resolution process, and got nowhere. Which makes sense, because at $7000 this needs a police report. The CC dispute can help a little, but that police report is what allows a seller to go "okay, you've committed to claiming to tell the truth, with jail time if it turns out you lied. We can now proceed in good faith". Because remember: the refund process for products that have vanished isn't "you complain, then you get money", it's "you complain, the seller files an insurance claim with their insurance company, they get the (promise of) insurance compensation, THEN they pay you". You get paid with that insurance money, so: no insurance compensation, no refund. And that's the only thing the police report does: it lets the seller go to their insurance company and go "here's the paperwork you need so you can justify honouring our claim", and then the insurance company will pay the seller, and if the amount is large enough, and its worth their time, the insurance company will do an investigation. (and note that this is specifically the process when it comes to fraud or theft, where the law has been broken. It has, obviously, nothing to do with the refund process for a defective product)
6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
Around here, the police just shrug at theft saying there’s nothing they can do and that they have higher priorities. They’ve taught us that filling a police report is worthless.
- TheRealPomax 5y ago
  They don't have to do a single thing other than open a case, so that you have proof that you are willing to stake legal repercussions (fines, jail, possible even prison) on the validity of your claim. The sellers don't care whether the police is going to investigate, they only care that you have the legal paperwork that they can give to their insurer so that THEY can get that money back, too. Because you don't get paid "by the seller", you get paid with dollars that the seller gets from their insurer. Until they have the evidence that the insurer will accept, you're not getting paid.

celeritascelery 5y ago

But the shipper (UPS) had a record of the package weighing only 2 pounds. That is hard evidence that the device was not present when shipped.

LeCow 5y ago
And that's why they won their fraud dispute... There will always be a generic and broad policy first. Then it will - and did - get resolved on further investigation.
TheRealPomax 5y ago
Yes, and without a case file that evidence counts for exactly nothing. When it's this much money, you get to go to the police, report fraud, and back it up with the UPS shipping information. Now you now have case number and legally recognized evidence that you can take to the seller, so that they can be reasonably sure you're not just trying to get free money. Because again, it's the internet, just doctoring a UPS web page and printing your own shipping label is trivial for anyone who stands to me $7000 if they get away with it.

hoppyhoppy2 5y ago

>The Chiles filed a credit card dispute and made a crime report, and after The Denver Channel made its own inquiries and the Chiles tried emailing Amazon owner Jeff Bezos directly, Amazon relented and said that the $7,000 will be refunded once the credit card dispute had been resolved. It sounds like Amazon refused to refund their money until the media got involved. Also, even if that were not the case, a big part of what Amazon sells is convenience and (supposedly) great customer service. If you pay $7,000 only to receive an empty box, and you provide Amazon with evidence from UPS that the box's weight was less than the weight of the actual product, that should be all it takes to get your money back. Jumping through hoops with your credit card company and filing a police report should be the last resort for dealing with shitty companies that won't listen to anything but threats. There is no reason that the buyer should have to do that when dealing with a reputable company, especially when they have evidence from the shipper that the box did not contain the product they ordered.

TheRealPomax 5y ago
Let's be clear: emailing the CEO and pretending that was a smart move is just idiotic. The article reads like they followed the standard resolution process, and got nowhere. Which makes sense, because at $7000 this needs a police report. The CC dispute can help a little, but that police report is what allows a seller to go "okay, you've committed to claiming to tell the truth, with jail time if it turns out you lied. We can now proceed in good faith". Because remember: the refund process for products that have vanished isn't "you complain, then you get money", it's "you complain, the seller files an insurance claim with their insurance company, they get the (promise of) insurance compensation, THEN they pay you". You get paid with that insurance money, so: no insurance compensation, no refund. And that's the only thing the police report does: it lets the seller go to their insurance company and go "here's the paperwork you need so you can justify honouring our claim", and then the insurance company will pay the seller, and if the amount is large enough, and its worth their time, the insurance company will do an investigation. (and note that this is specifically the process when it comes to fraud or theft, where the law has been broken. It has, obviously, nothing to do with the refund process for a defective product)

6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago

Around here, the police just shrug at theft saying there’s nothing they can do and that they have higher priorities. They’ve taught us that filling a police report is worthless.

TheRealPomax 5y ago
They don't have to do a single thing other than open a case, so that you have proof that you are willing to stake legal repercussions (fines, jail, possible even prison) on the validity of your claim. The sellers don't care whether the police is going to investigate, they only care that you have the legal paperwork that they can give to their insurer so that THEY can get that money back, too. Because you don't get paid "by the seller", you get paid with dollars that the seller gets from their insurer. Until they have the evidence that the insurer will accept, you're not getting paid.