4 ms·

History is a bit longer than 50~ years. And, at least internally, European social democratic system is rather good at balancing both for well being, and freedom

by mola 5y ago

History is a bit longer than 50~ years. And, at least internally, European social democratic system is rather good at balancing both for well being, and freedom. While the US system less so. I don't think the problem is "socialism"

bserge 5y ago
Me neither. The problem is the all powerful government that doesn't answer to the general population. It's great when they're doing what's best for the majority. But inevitably they start doing things for the powerful minority (themselves) at the expense of the rest. In a democratic system (which can, in fact, have heavy socialist elements) there are ways to legally and peacefully change the government. The public officials are servants of the people (well, ideally). In the Soviet/Chinese/other "communist" style system, they take all the power with the promise of bringing true communism/socialism later, and they keep that power and never fulfill the promise. Public officials are strong "leaders" (read "rulers") of the people. It's not that different from monarchy or feudalism, actually.
- xtian 5y ago
  > In the Soviet/Chinese/other "communist" style system, they take all the power with the promise of bringing true communism/socialism later, and they keep that power and never fulfill the promise. Of course US leaders are famous worldwide for keeping their promises. Are you able to describe Soviet democracy or any of the democratic systems that exist within China today? Generally people who say these kinds of things are not.
  - bserge 5y ago
    They do keep promises, otherwise they never get voted for again. I am able to describe the systems that exist, but I am not willing. If the majority of the Chinese like their system, good for them. And if the majority in the US or EU honestly decide they want it, too, I can live with that. People lived and thrived in the USSR, after all. But I would prefer not to.
    - xtian 5y ago
      According to this research conducted by the Harvard Kennedy School, the vast majority of people in China do like their system: https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resilience-surveying-chinese-public-opinion-through-time https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resil...

by mola 5y ago

bserge 5y ago

Me neither. The problem is the all powerful government that doesn't answer to the general population. It's great when they're doing what's best for the majority. But inevitably they start doing things for the powerful minority (themselves) at the expense of the rest. In a democratic system (which can, in fact, have heavy socialist elements) there are ways to legally and peacefully change the government. The public officials are servants of the people (well, ideally). In the Soviet/Chinese/other "communist" style system, they take all the power with the promise of bringing true communism/socialism later, and they keep that power and never fulfill the promise. Public officials are strong "leaders" (read "rulers") of the people. It's not that different from monarchy or feudalism, actually.

xtian 5y ago
> In the Soviet/Chinese/other "communist" style system, they take all the power with the promise of bringing true communism/socialism later, and they keep that power and never fulfill the promise. Of course US leaders are famous worldwide for keeping their promises. Are you able to describe Soviet democracy or any of the democratic systems that exist within China today? Generally people who say these kinds of things are not.
- bserge 5y ago
  They do keep promises, otherwise they never get voted for again. I am able to describe the systems that exist, but I am not willing. If the majority of the Chinese like their system, good for them. And if the majority in the US or EU honestly decide they want it, too, I can live with that. People lived and thrived in the USSR, after all. But I would prefer not to.
  - xtian 5y ago
    According to this research conducted by the Harvard Kennedy School, the vast majority of people in China do like their system: https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resilience-surveying-chinese-public-opinion-through-time https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resil...