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And as long as philosopher will refuse to dig a bit into mathematics or computer science for answers to questions they call "philosophical", I'll have a hard ti

by Iv 15y ago

And as long as philosopher will refuse to dig a bit into mathematics or computer science for answers to questions they call "philosophical", I'll have a hard time being interested by philosophy.

slowpoke 15y ago
And as long as mathematicans will refuse to stop asserting that their holy science is the one and only correct answer to all problems on this earth, I'll have a hard time being interested in mathematics. This goes both ways, you see?
- wwrap 15y ago
  As soon as philosophy gets to even a fraction of the use mathematics has, then maybe it will be worth looking to for answers.
  - philbarr 15y ago
    I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion.
    - anamax 15y ago
      > I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion. Religion ended slavery. (Yes, some religions advocated and supported slavery - they lost to the ones that didn't.) What has philosophy done in that domain. (Is it poor form to point out that philosophy pretty much went Nazi during the 30s.) Yes, philosophers produced logic et al.
      - BasDirks 15y ago
        Religion ended slavery? Please explain (I'm genuinely curious). Philosophy went nazi? No, nazism went philosophy, and poorly too. They raped Nietzsche's philosophy until it fit their needs, with the help of his decadent Missgeburt of a sister. Heidegger is perhaps a much more problematic case, but also not a matter of black-and-white. Philosophers _produced_ logic? Wittgenstein is lolling at you in his grave right now.
        elwin 15y ago
        I'm not sure this is what the parent meant, but in America at least, the antislavery movement was part of a broad social reform movement which was strongly tied to the popular Christianity of the day. For example, see the connections between Charles Finney (a prominent theologian) and Oberlin College (one of the first integrated universities). Also, look up the full lyrics to the Battle Hymn of the Republic- it sounds like nonsense outside of the context of 19th century revivalism. The reform movement and its consequences make an interesting historical topic.
        prodigal_erik 15y ago
        Strangely, there were Christians on both sides of the issue, all claiming doctrinal support for their positions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Christian_abolitionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Chri... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Opposition_to_abolitionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Oppo...
        anamax 15y ago
        > Strangely, there were Christians on both sides of the issue I wonder if that's why I wrote: "Yes, some religions advocated and supported slavery" The existence of religious slavery supporters does not refute the claim was that religious people ended slavery. As I put it the first time: "[the religious supporters of slavery] lost to [religious opponents]."
        prodigal_erik 15y ago
        I found it misleading to praise religion for motivating the winners but not blame religion (in fact almost all of the very same denominations) for also motivating the losers. Also interesting because I still can't imagine how people used the same sources but got such wildly different answers.
        15y ago
      - nate_meurer 15y ago
        What a sloppy, ignorant brush with which to paint such a complex subject as abolition. Religion was, and is, used to justify slavery every bit as much as abolition. In the U.S. for example, every major southern church organization was founded explicitly for the purpose of supporting slavery; the Southern Baptist Convention didn't officially renounce this support until 1995. To this day, religion continues to be a powerful driver of racism, classism, and slavery. In case you need examples, may I point you to the Hindu caste system and the Muslim doctrine of Dhimmitude.
      - Shorel 15y ago
        It can be argued that religion invented retconning way before we could think of a name for that process. Noah is the retconning of Gilgamesh, Jesus the retconning of Ra, etc. Every religious explanation should be taken with a ton of salt.
  - ajuc 15y ago
    Philosophy doesn't really give answers - it only states interesting questions, and if we can answer some of them - a new science is born.
    - wwrap 15y ago
      Well said. I was about to tack on "questions on the other hand..." to my comment but was already in bed when I thought of it.
RyanMcGreal 15y ago
Ahem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica
da_dude4242 15y ago
Nice try troll. Philosophy plays a larger role in the lives of mathematicians than in the lives of natural scientists. Many mathematicians have domain expertise in philosophy. Your "philosopher" is a straw-man by comparison.

by Iv 15y ago

And as long as philosopher will refuse to dig a bit into mathematics or computer science for answers to questions they call "philosophical", I'll have a hard time being interested by philosophy.

slowpoke 15y ago

And as long as mathematicans will refuse to stop asserting that their holy science is the one and only correct answer to all problems on this earth, I'll have a hard time being interested in mathematics. This goes both ways, you see?

wwrap 15y ago
As soon as philosophy gets to even a fraction of the use mathematics has, then maybe it will be worth looking to for answers.
- philbarr 15y ago
  I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion.
  - anamax 15y ago
    > I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion. Religion ended slavery. (Yes, some religions advocated and supported slavery - they lost to the ones that didn't.) What has philosophy done in that domain. (Is it poor form to point out that philosophy pretty much went Nazi during the 30s.) Yes, philosophers produced logic et al.
    - BasDirks 15y ago
      Religion ended slavery? Please explain (I'm genuinely curious). Philosophy went nazi? No, nazism went philosophy, and poorly too. They raped Nietzsche's philosophy until it fit their needs, with the help of his decadent Missgeburt of a sister. Heidegger is perhaps a much more problematic case, but also not a matter of black-and-white. Philosophers _produced_ logic? Wittgenstein is lolling at you in his grave right now.
      - elwin 15y ago
        I'm not sure this is what the parent meant, but in America at least, the antislavery movement was part of a broad social reform movement which was strongly tied to the popular Christianity of the day. For example, see the connections between Charles Finney (a prominent theologian) and Oberlin College (one of the first integrated universities). Also, look up the full lyrics to the Battle Hymn of the Republic- it sounds like nonsense outside of the context of 19th century revivalism. The reform movement and its consequences make an interesting historical topic.
        prodigal_erik 15y ago
        Strangely, there were Christians on both sides of the issue, all claiming doctrinal support for their positions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Christian_abolitionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Chri... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Opposition_to_abolitionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Oppo...
        anamax 15y ago
        > Strangely, there were Christians on both sides of the issue I wonder if that's why I wrote: "Yes, some religions advocated and supported slavery" The existence of religious slavery supporters does not refute the claim was that religious people ended slavery. As I put it the first time: "[the religious supporters of slavery] lost to [religious opponents]."
        prodigal_erik 15y ago
        I found it misleading to praise religion for motivating the winners but not blame religion (in fact almost all of the very same denominations) for also motivating the losers. Also interesting because I still can't imagine how people used the same sources but got such wildly different answers.
        15y ago
    - nate_meurer 15y ago
      What a sloppy, ignorant brush with which to paint such a complex subject as abolition. Religion was, and is, used to justify slavery every bit as much as abolition. In the U.S. for example, every major southern church organization was founded explicitly for the purpose of supporting slavery; the Southern Baptist Convention didn't officially renounce this support until 1995. To this day, religion continues to be a powerful driver of racism, classism, and slavery. In case you need examples, may I point you to the Hindu caste system and the Muslim doctrine of Dhimmitude.
    - Shorel 15y ago
      It can be argued that religion invented retconning way before we could think of a name for that process. Noah is the retconning of Gilgamesh, Jesus the retconning of Ra, etc. Every religious explanation should be taken with a ton of salt.
- ajuc 15y ago
  Philosophy doesn't really give answers - it only states interesting questions, and if we can answer some of them - a new science is born.
  - wwrap 15y ago
    Well said. I was about to tack on "questions on the other hand..." to my comment but was already in bed when I thought of it.

RyanMcGreal 15y ago

Ahem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica

da_dude4242 15y ago

Nice try troll. Philosophy plays a larger role in the lives of mathematicians than in the lives of natural scientists. Many mathematicians have domain expertise in philosophy. Your "philosopher" is a straw-man by comparison.