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Very cool! I sometimes wonder what's so special about the concept of a 'symbol'. A stream of symbols make up a message. A message contains a thought or an idea

Very cool! I sometimes wonder what's so special about the concept of a 'symbol'. A stream of symbols make up a message. A message contains a thought or an idea which we wish to express. We definitely find it hard to communicate with symbols alone. It would be very interesting to find answers to 1. What processes convert ideas to symbols and messages. 2. Is there a notion of an optimal symbol set? 3. How much are these symbols and messages created by the human brain dependent on the person's environment?

gosub 15y ago
regarding n.2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity defines formally the concept of minimal encoding of a message
- Iv 15y ago
  And as long as philosopher will refuse to dig a bit into mathematics or computer science for answers to questions they call "philosophical", I'll have a hard time being interested by philosophy.
  - slowpoke 15y ago
    And as long as mathematicans will refuse to stop asserting that their holy science is the one and only correct answer to all problems on this earth, I'll have a hard time being interested in mathematics. This goes both ways, you see?
    - wwrap 15y ago
      As soon as philosophy gets to even a fraction of the use mathematics has, then maybe it will be worth looking to for answers.
      - philbarr 15y ago
        I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion.
        anamax 15y ago
        > I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion. Religion ended slavery. (Yes, some religions advocated and supported slavery - they lost to the ones that didn't.) What has philosophy done in that domain. (Is it poor form to point out that philosophy pretty much went Nazi during the 30s.) Yes, philosophers produced logic et al.
        BasDirks 15y ago
        Religion ended slavery? Please explain (I'm genuinely curious). Philosophy went nazi? No, nazism went philosophy, and poorly too. They raped Nietzsche's philosophy until it fit their needs, with the help of his decadent Missgeburt of a sister. Heidegger is perhaps a much more problematic case, but also not a matter of black-and-white. Philosophers _produced_ logic? Wittgenstein is lolling at you in his grave right now.
        elwin 15y ago
        I'm not sure this is what the parent meant, but in America at least, the antislavery movement was part of a broad social reform movement which was strongly tied to the popular Christianity of the day. For example, see the connections between Charles Finney (a prominent theologian) and Oberlin College (one of the first integrated universities). Also, look up the full lyrics to the Battle Hymn of the Republic- it sounds like nonsense outside of the context of 19th century revivalism. The reform movement and its consequences make an interesting historical topic.
        prodigal_erik 15y ago
        Strangely, there were Christians on both sides of the issue, all claiming doctrinal support for their positions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Christian_abolitionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Chri... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Opposition_to_abolitionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Oppo...
  - RyanMcGreal 15y ago
    Ahem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica
  - da_dude4242 15y ago
    Nice try troll. Philosophy plays a larger role in the lives of mathematicians than in the lives of natural scientists. Many mathematicians have domain expertise in philosophy. Your "philosopher" is a straw-man by comparison.

gosub 15y ago

regarding n.2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity defines formally the concept of minimal encoding of a message

Iv 15y ago
And as long as philosopher will refuse to dig a bit into mathematics or computer science for answers to questions they call "philosophical", I'll have a hard time being interested by philosophy.
- slowpoke 15y ago
  And as long as mathematicans will refuse to stop asserting that their holy science is the one and only correct answer to all problems on this earth, I'll have a hard time being interested in mathematics. This goes both ways, you see?
  - wwrap 15y ago
    As soon as philosophy gets to even a fraction of the use mathematics has, then maybe it will be worth looking to for answers.
    - philbarr 15y ago
      I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion.
      - anamax 15y ago
        > I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion. Religion ended slavery. (Yes, some religions advocated and supported slavery - they lost to the ones that didn't.) What has philosophy done in that domain. (Is it poor form to point out that philosophy pretty much went Nazi during the 30s.) Yes, philosophers produced logic et al.
        BasDirks 15y ago
        Religion ended slavery? Please explain (I'm genuinely curious). Philosophy went nazi? No, nazism went philosophy, and poorly too. They raped Nietzsche's philosophy until it fit their needs, with the help of his decadent Missgeburt of a sister. Heidegger is perhaps a much more problematic case, but also not a matter of black-and-white. Philosophers _produced_ logic? Wittgenstein is lolling at you in his grave right now.
        elwin 15y ago
        I'm not sure this is what the parent meant, but in America at least, the antislavery movement was part of a broad social reform movement which was strongly tied to the popular Christianity of the day. For example, see the connections between Charles Finney (a prominent theologian) and Oberlin College (one of the first integrated universities). Also, look up the full lyrics to the Battle Hymn of the Republic- it sounds like nonsense outside of the context of 19th century revivalism. The reform movement and its consequences make an interesting historical topic.
        prodigal_erik 15y ago
        Strangely, there were Christians on both sides of the issue, all claiming doctrinal support for their positions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Christian_abolitionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Chri... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Opposition_to_abolitionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#Oppo...
- RyanMcGreal 15y ago
  Ahem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica
- da_dude4242 15y ago
  Nice try troll. Philosophy plays a larger role in the lives of mathematicians than in the lives of natural scientists. Many mathematicians have domain expertise in philosophy. Your "philosopher" is a straw-man by comparison.