5 ms·

The title is bullshit. They found that people who wake up earlier are less likely to be depressed. NOT that you can just wake up earlier and cure your depressio

The title is bullshit. They found that people who wake up earlier are less likely to be depressed. NOT that you can just wake up earlier and cure your depression. "Genetically proxied earlier diurnal preference was associated with a 23% lower risk of depression"

coding123 5y ago
Yup I think they ran straight into a causal reversal.
- cortesoft 5y ago
  Or it could just be a correlation. Same thing causes both.
  - tgb 5y ago
    So the article tries to separate this out by using Mendelian randomization which supposedly fixes this since whether or not you inherit a genetic variant from your parent is a coin toss. However it has to make some other assumptions that are pretty hard to justify when it comes to something as complex as sleep schedules. There are some strategies to at least detect when things go wrong, though.
    - dcolkitt 5y ago
      Except the problem with Mendelian randomization is that genes that control circadian rhythm are also likely to affect mood.
      - tgb 5y ago
        Well, indeed, that is what their main finding is. The question is do they affect mood by means other than affecting circadian rhythm?
- unishark 5y ago
  There have been studies suggesting causality in both directions. The resulting vicious cycles you get from that are common in mental illness.
taneq 5y ago
Exactly. Depressed people typically sleep more.
thomastjeffery 5y ago
It's worse than just the title: > This means that if someone who regularly goes to bed at 1 a.m. instead goes to bed at midnight and sleeps for the same amount of time, they can reduce their risk by 23%...at 11 p.m...40%...early risers may benefit from waking up even earlier. For those in the moderate or evening ranges, however, shifting to an earlier bedtime would likely be helpful. > “This study definitely shifts the weight of evidence toward supporting a causal effect of sleep timing on depression,” Daghlas added. > Dr. Vetter gives the following recommendations to individuals who desire to go on an earlier sleep schedule... They are explicitly recommending that people change their sleep schedule, even though the study did not explore changes in sleep schedule. This bullshit shouldn't have been published in the first place.
tim333 5y ago
Thanks for the comment. I came here to check if they'd got cause and effect backwards as usual - depression causes getting up late rather than up late causes depression. It surprises me people find this so hard - at uni even correlation was treated as major stuff and the idea of cause and effect almost beyond human knowledge.
dang 5y ago
We've replaced the title with a sentence from the abstract of the study, shortened to fit HN's 80 char limit.

coding123 5y ago

Yup I think they ran straight into a causal reversal.

cortesoft 5y ago
Or it could just be a correlation. Same thing causes both.
- tgb 5y ago
  So the article tries to separate this out by using Mendelian randomization which supposedly fixes this since whether or not you inherit a genetic variant from your parent is a coin toss. However it has to make some other assumptions that are pretty hard to justify when it comes to something as complex as sleep schedules. There are some strategies to at least detect when things go wrong, though.
  - dcolkitt 5y ago
    Except the problem with Mendelian randomization is that genes that control circadian rhythm are also likely to affect mood.
    - tgb 5y ago
      Well, indeed, that is what their main finding is. The question is do they affect mood by means other than affecting circadian rhythm?
unishark 5y ago
There have been studies suggesting causality in both directions. The resulting vicious cycles you get from that are common in mental illness.

taneq 5y ago

Exactly. Depressed people typically sleep more.

thomastjeffery 5y ago

It's worse than just the title: > This means that if someone who regularly goes to bed at 1 a.m. instead goes to bed at midnight and sleeps for the same amount of time, they can reduce their risk by 23%...at 11 p.m...40%...early risers may benefit from waking up even earlier. For those in the moderate or evening ranges, however, shifting to an earlier bedtime would likely be helpful. > “This study definitely shifts the weight of evidence toward supporting a causal effect of sleep timing on depression,” Daghlas added. > Dr. Vetter gives the following recommendations to individuals who desire to go on an earlier sleep schedule... They are explicitly recommending that people change their sleep schedule, even though the study did not explore changes in sleep schedule. This bullshit shouldn't have been published in the first place.

tim333 5y ago

Thanks for the comment. I came here to check if they'd got cause and effect backwards as usual - depression causes getting up late rather than up late causes depression. It surprises me people find this so hard - at uni even correlation was treated as major stuff and the idea of cause and effect almost beyond human knowledge.

dang 5y ago

We've replaced the title with a sentence from the abstract of the study, shortened to fit HN's 80 char limit.