5 ms·

Kind of sad/understandable/alarming. Clearly every lesson is hard won from many years experience. This is where development employment ends up I think after g

Kind of sad/understandable/alarming. Clearly every lesson is hard won from many years experience. This is where development employment ends up I think after gaining significant experience. You start by caring, making mistakes, throwing yourself into it, becoming disappointed, mad, excited, frustrated, overjoyed, deeply engaged, loving the company, less loving the company - believing in the mission. Over time, you think about and wonder about situations that do not play out well, you formulate strategies to do better on them. In the end, the passion for the company and its mission gives way to a cooler, calmer, more professional and reliable approach. At this point you're probably a much better and more valuable employee, but inside you no longer really care about what you are doing. You're easier to get along with, more predictable, and likely a very much better developer than when you started. I'd say the employees who have learned all these lessons are the most valuable, but they're not going to be wildly enthusiastic perhaps. Unless of course the situation demands overt enthusiasm, in which case these employees might show the required enthusiasm, but it's ticking off an internal box "enthusiasm required in this situation". I personally got to the point that I don't believe in any company mission except my own mission to make my own software - I'll build stuff for some other company, and I won't say out loud what I think about the mission/the product/the management/the strategy, but inside I won't believe.

obvthrowaway32 5y ago
Does not have to be that way. I did feel that way when I was still doing web apps, but I left that ten years ago, and still look back on that decision in fondness. I am making "things" now. I'm on the software side, but it's tightly integrated with the hardware side of an actual thing, that people can use. For some reason, much of the bullshit in web development just does not apply in that situation. I still care. I had to adjust what exactly I'm working on a few times, but then I still care. One passage I noticed in the article is that the author contemplates the question "could I make this app just myself", and the answer being along the lines of "yes, but then I'd have to deal with all the marketing and so on". In my case, the answer is a resounding no. The complexity is so high that you absolutely need multiple teams, some that work on pieces essentially distinct from other teams. Maybe that is a factor? The fact that I can only work on a specific piece of the thing anyway, but can own that to a high degree? Does that make me feel "part of something" myself? I don't know. The other passage I noticed was "don't rewrite things". That just does not apply to my work at all. Me, my teammates, and other teams have rewritten plenty of stuff. Some of these attempts failed, but for those that did not fail I remember many times where I and others were glad that we did not have to deal with the old code anymore, that had just grown in complexity from now illfitting beginnings. Rewriting is a regular part of all of our jobs, and without that we had probably become mad by now.
- akiselev 5y ago
  Hardware development is fundamentally different and so is the software that goes along with it. When you have a firmware deadline dictated by a production schedule, it leaves a lot less room for feature and scope creep because there is a final "done"(-ish) state. Any changes to the firmware after the product has shipped are far more expensive and risky than starting a CI/CD build. With the deadline, there is pressure to push employees as the production deadline approaches. In software where you and all your competitors can push changes to production at any time, that pressure exists 100% of the time - sort of like on a factory floor. Edit: The other side of it is that hardware production depends on standardization far more than software. Once you have designed a part and a manufacturing process around it, the ROI of designing a new alternative is usually negative compared to improving part of the manufacturing process.
Igelau 5y ago
> inside you no longer really care about what you are doing IMHO that's okay. Life has given me lots more things to care about, and I can enjoy them more freely because I'm not trying to squeeze a living out of them. Though to be fair I've never worked anywhere that really "sold" me on its mission, and it's actually kind of difficult for me to imagine such a company. I have a question I always ask when I'm being interviewed: what's your favorite part about working here? The best answer I've gotten is "the work-life balance" and it's been a very good fit for me.

obvthrowaway32 5y ago

Does not have to be that way. I did feel that way when I was still doing web apps, but I left that ten years ago, and still look back on that decision in fondness. I am making "things" now. I'm on the software side, but it's tightly integrated with the hardware side of an actual thing, that people can use. For some reason, much of the bullshit in web development just does not apply in that situation. I still care. I had to adjust what exactly I'm working on a few times, but then I still care. One passage I noticed in the article is that the author contemplates the question "could I make this app just myself", and the answer being along the lines of "yes, but then I'd have to deal with all the marketing and so on". In my case, the answer is a resounding no. The complexity is so high that you absolutely need multiple teams, some that work on pieces essentially distinct from other teams. Maybe that is a factor? The fact that I can only work on a specific piece of the thing anyway, but can own that to a high degree? Does that make me feel "part of something" myself? I don't know. The other passage I noticed was "don't rewrite things". That just does not apply to my work at all. Me, my teammates, and other teams have rewritten plenty of stuff. Some of these attempts failed, but for those that did not fail I remember many times where I and others were glad that we did not have to deal with the old code anymore, that had just grown in complexity from now illfitting beginnings. Rewriting is a regular part of all of our jobs, and without that we had probably become mad by now.

akiselev 5y ago
Hardware development is fundamentally different and so is the software that goes along with it. When you have a firmware deadline dictated by a production schedule, it leaves a lot less room for feature and scope creep because there is a final "done"(-ish) state. Any changes to the firmware after the product has shipped are far more expensive and risky than starting a CI/CD build. With the deadline, there is pressure to push employees as the production deadline approaches. In software where you and all your competitors can push changes to production at any time, that pressure exists 100% of the time - sort of like on a factory floor. Edit: The other side of it is that hardware production depends on standardization far more than software. Once you have designed a part and a manufacturing process around it, the ROI of designing a new alternative is usually negative compared to improving part of the manufacturing process.

Igelau 5y ago

> inside you no longer really care about what you are doing IMHO that's okay. Life has given me lots more things to care about, and I can enjoy them more freely because I'm not trying to squeeze a living out of them. Though to be fair I've never worked anywhere that really "sold" me on its mission, and it's actually kind of difficult for me to imagine such a company. I have a question I always ask when I'm being interviewed: what's your favorite part about working here? The best answer I've gotten is "the work-life balance" and it's been a very good fit for me.