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I think having alternatives to high school is good. That said, I’ve experienced what happens when high schoolers infiltrate the community colleges - it feels l

I think having alternatives to high school is good. That said, I’ve experienced what happens when high schoolers infiltrate the community colleges - it feels like high school all over again. A bit better, sure. But the level of immaturity and the disruptions are very similar. God help you if you get a group project with 15 year olds. Ultimately, there are many people at a young age who have no interests in being a part of the type of society that has been around for the last 30-40 years. And they are a sizable portion of youths. Nihilism (in many forms...) is strong at that age and so is the lack of interest in hard work. Ultimately, what do you do for those kids for them to be happy? UBI would really be the only thing... That’s the only way you could get these counter-culture kids who are more focused on disruption out. Also, most kids who are problematic in school tend to have problematic parents. Trickles down real well that stuff.

mixmastamyk 5y ago
Smart, interested 15s sure. The kind of folks you mention, why would they even come? Or not drop after the first test.
- bradlys 5y ago
  > The kind of folks you mention, why would they even come? Or not drop after the first test. Why would they ever go to high school to begin with? Why not just drop? Same reason they all go - societal pressure. Besides, being a disruption or a PITA does not mean you fail academically. You can do quite well academically but absolutely be a huge PITA to all your peers. I think you overestimate the intellect and interest required to succeed in an academic environment. We don't live in some weird society where only the most intellectually gifted (however you define that) and most interested are capable of succeeding in college or academica.
  - barry-cotter 5y ago
    > Why would they ever go to high school to begin with? Why not just drop? Same reason they all go - societal pressure. Truancy laws aren’t societal pressure. They’re a threat, enforced, that if you don’t send your child to school men with guns will lock you up. Disruptions and PITA do not want to be in school, for the large majority. For all of them, they do not want to be in that class. If they were free not to go they wouldn’t. You’re quite right that standards have been dropped enormously since when academia was the pursuit of a small minority but they haven’t slipped to where someone of average intelligence can graduate from a four year university. Standards still exist.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      > but they haven’t slipped to where someone of average intelligence can graduate from a four year university. I don’t know what you think intelligence is but I’m gonna say this is easily disproved by the number of dumb as dumbbells folks I see out there with degrees... Truancy laws only get enforced in certain regions and vary on rules... I saw plenty of kids dropping out where I grew up.
      - barry-cotter 5y ago
        I strongly suspect you are dealing with a range restriction problem. Dumb and dumb for a university graduate are not the same. Dumb for a university graduate: can’t do algebra Dumb for a high school graduate: can’t divide a five digit number by a two digit number with pencil and paper Dumb for the general population: can’t do arithmetic
        chaosharmonic 5y ago
        This also depends somewhat on area of study, honestly. Having majored in music (and picked up most of my technical skills just out of a habit for tinkering), my running joke was always that none of my classes required me to count past 32.
souprock 5y ago
I sent two of my kids to community college at 13. The only immaturity problem was that one of the two was a slacker about getting assignments done, but older people at the school also had that issue often enough. The other kid now has a 4.0 GPA on 48 credits, and you'd have never guessed she wasn't an adult.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Congrats? I’m speaking from my own experience in a school that had 25%+ high school children in it (effectively 50% because many adult students were part time). It was high school 2.0. Your own experience of your children going to school doesn’t reflect the experience of what others had to deal with at that school or in relation to your children... grades be damned.
  - souprock 5y ago
    It really is high school 2.0, as you can tell by the classes offered. There are classes that are below what is traditional for high school, but college credit is given. You can get college credit for the very first introductory algebra class. That's honors 7th grade, or regular 9th grade. About the same applies for English composition and science. It's not just older people who wish to avoid being in classes with immature young people. The mature young people are also trying to get away from the awfulness.
runawaybottle 5y ago
Mostly agreeing with you: What is this fantasy that abolishing school will do for these kids? They won’t magically discover themselves, as we are all beholden to the normal distribution. At some point or another, your ass is going to have to wake up at 8am every day and get to a desk and sit for 8 hours (yes, even at your dream job at Google) with people you may or may not like, just so you can have a small afternoon on a Sunday walking the dog or watching a movie. That’s reality. Childhood is already a massive fantasy. Half the reason why many adults are maladjusted is because they can’t get out of the fantasy of childhood. No, your parents won’t pay your bills. Yeah, you will have a boss. Mmmhmm, it’s going to suck and you are going to have to find a way to get along. Oh, and that competition and bullying you were worried about, multiply that by 100 at any well paying office job. Hi, welcome to the world, hope you have some experience dealing with people because shit just got real. Learn that at the youngest age(s) possible, because the harsh reality is no one later in life is going to wait around for you to ‘figure it out’. The whole world will pass you by and no one will bat an eye.

mixmastamyk 5y ago

Smart, interested 15s sure. The kind of folks you mention, why would they even come? Or not drop after the first test.

bradlys 5y ago
> The kind of folks you mention, why would they even come? Or not drop after the first test. Why would they ever go to high school to begin with? Why not just drop? Same reason they all go - societal pressure. Besides, being a disruption or a PITA does not mean you fail academically. You can do quite well academically but absolutely be a huge PITA to all your peers. I think you overestimate the intellect and interest required to succeed in an academic environment. We don't live in some weird society where only the most intellectually gifted (however you define that) and most interested are capable of succeeding in college or academica.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  > Why would they ever go to high school to begin with? Why not just drop? Same reason they all go - societal pressure. Truancy laws aren’t societal pressure. They’re a threat, enforced, that if you don’t send your child to school men with guns will lock you up. Disruptions and PITA do not want to be in school, for the large majority. For all of them, they do not want to be in that class. If they were free not to go they wouldn’t. You’re quite right that standards have been dropped enormously since when academia was the pursuit of a small minority but they haven’t slipped to where someone of average intelligence can graduate from a four year university. Standards still exist.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    > but they haven’t slipped to where someone of average intelligence can graduate from a four year university. I don’t know what you think intelligence is but I’m gonna say this is easily disproved by the number of dumb as dumbbells folks I see out there with degrees... Truancy laws only get enforced in certain regions and vary on rules... I saw plenty of kids dropping out where I grew up.
    - barry-cotter 5y ago
      I strongly suspect you are dealing with a range restriction problem. Dumb and dumb for a university graduate are not the same. Dumb for a university graduate: can’t do algebra Dumb for a high school graduate: can’t divide a five digit number by a two digit number with pencil and paper Dumb for the general population: can’t do arithmetic
      - chaosharmonic 5y ago
        This also depends somewhat on area of study, honestly. Having majored in music (and picked up most of my technical skills just out of a habit for tinkering), my running joke was always that none of my classes required me to count past 32.

souprock 5y ago

I sent two of my kids to community college at 13. The only immaturity problem was that one of the two was a slacker about getting assignments done, but older people at the school also had that issue often enough. The other kid now has a 4.0 GPA on 48 credits, and you'd have never guessed she wasn't an adult.

bradlys 5y ago
Congrats? I’m speaking from my own experience in a school that had 25%+ high school children in it (effectively 50% because many adult students were part time). It was high school 2.0. Your own experience of your children going to school doesn’t reflect the experience of what others had to deal with at that school or in relation to your children... grades be damned.
- souprock 5y ago
  It really is high school 2.0, as you can tell by the classes offered. There are classes that are below what is traditional for high school, but college credit is given. You can get college credit for the very first introductory algebra class. That's honors 7th grade, or regular 9th grade. About the same applies for English composition and science. It's not just older people who wish to avoid being in classes with immature young people. The mature young people are also trying to get away from the awfulness.

runawaybottle 5y ago

Mostly agreeing with you: What is this fantasy that abolishing school will do for these kids? They won’t magically discover themselves, as we are all beholden to the normal distribution. At some point or another, your ass is going to have to wake up at 8am every day and get to a desk and sit for 8 hours (yes, even at your dream job at Google) with people you may or may not like, just so you can have a small afternoon on a Sunday walking the dog or watching a movie. That’s reality. Childhood is already a massive fantasy. Half the reason why many adults are maladjusted is because they can’t get out of the fantasy of childhood. No, your parents won’t pay your bills. Yeah, you will have a boss. Mmmhmm, it’s going to suck and you are going to have to find a way to get along. Oh, and that competition and bullying you were worried about, multiply that by 100 at any well paying office job. Hi, welcome to the world, hope you have some experience dealing with people because shit just got real. Learn that at the youngest age(s) possible, because the harsh reality is no one later in life is going to wait around for you to ‘figure it out’. The whole world will pass you by and no one will bat an eye.