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most people on the internet have never used plain text email, or usenet. A fair chunk of them have used reddit, where it actually does something. So I guess i

most people on the internet have never used plain text email, or usenet. A fair chunk of them have used reddit, where it actually does something. So I guess it's just not that important to me, overall, to use a convention that few people have ever used. If HN had a basic quote function it wouldn't matter.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
havelhovel 5y ago
> So I guess it's just not that important to me, overall, to use a convention that few people have ever used. My favorite writing tip is knowing one’s audience. (:
- LegitShady 5y ago
  My audience is not curmudgeons who require I use their quote convention that doesn't actually do anything, because they're unlikely to learn anything from anyone anyways, since they're nitpicking symbology.
jlokier 5y ago
Intriguing. I have never used Reddit except as a search result. The ">" is ubiquitous in email, usenet, Markdown, Github and Discord, which are more familiar. It seems to be a widely used convention here on HN as well, even though HN software doesn't highlight it. It's baked into a lot of modern software due to long-standing convention for about half a century. Nowadays that software includes anything taking input with a vague similarity to Markdown. There's a lot of that about.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  It's stupid. If HN implemented a quote feature, it would mean something. if I preceded every quote with a bold pipe | for each line of the quote it would be more noticeable, but of course HN doesn't provide a WYIWYG editor so you never know when a new line starts. It's just a first line visual indicator here. Consider me your quote symbol iconoclast. There's no reason for > to mean quote in a system that doesn't implement quotes. It's just a cultural construct being followed 'because thats how it was'.
  - antonvs 5y ago
    > It's just a cultural construct That's the point. It doesn't have to "do anything" in software or be "implemented" to be useful - it has shared meaning in people's minds. You're reminding me of the small child who receives a non-electronic action figure for Christmas and immediately asks, "but what does it do?"
    - LegitShady 5y ago
      alternately, I just don't care what symbol is used since it's not connected to any actual function. Someone got offended that I used one symbol instead of another and when I said 'i don't really care' people jumped in to tell me how important it was to them. I still don't care.
      - antonvs 5y ago
        > alternately, I just don't care what symbol is used since it's not connected to any actual function. Put it like this: it is connected to an actual function, it's just that that function is in people's minds. As for people getting offended, I think you might be projecting. Let's look at how part of this conversation might have played out in an alternate universe: > I think it's actually a carry over from reddit, where it activates the quote, while here on hacker news it does nothing. It's just a symbol. > > It’s a carryover from long established internet (plaintext email, Usenet, etc.) convention, which is where reddit (and lots of other forums) got it, too. > > > Oh wow, I didn't know that! It's always cool to learn about the history of where things we take for granted come from. The point is, there's no need to take offense at a minor educational correction.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > There's no reason for > to mean quote in a system that doesn't implement quotes. It's just a cultural construct So is all of language. There is no reason for “cultural construct” to mean cultural construct, its just a cultural construct. But shared cultural constructs are what enables communication.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> So I guess it's just not that important to me, overall, to use a convention that few people have ever used. Lots of people have used it, because lots of places have copied it from where it originated. At any rate, HN is mostly-plain-text environment that is more similar than most newer places that have adopted the convention to the context in which it originates, so in addition to its relevance to past experience, it makes sense on its own here. > So I guess it's just not that important to me, overall, to use a convention that few people have ever used. Yeah, lots of HN conventions each wouldn't matter if HN had one specific relevant formatting feature for the use case the convention addresses, but it doesn't, so we have the conventions we have.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

havelhovel 5y ago

> So I guess it's just not that important to me, overall, to use a convention that few people have ever used. My favorite writing tip is knowing one’s audience. (:

LegitShady 5y ago
My audience is not curmudgeons who require I use their quote convention that doesn't actually do anything, because they're unlikely to learn anything from anyone anyways, since they're nitpicking symbology.

jlokier 5y ago

Intriguing. I have never used Reddit except as a search result. The ">" is ubiquitous in email, usenet, Markdown, Github and Discord, which are more familiar. It seems to be a widely used convention here on HN as well, even though HN software doesn't highlight it. It's baked into a lot of modern software due to long-standing convention for about half a century. Nowadays that software includes anything taking input with a vague similarity to Markdown. There's a lot of that about.

LegitShady 5y ago
It's stupid. If HN implemented a quote feature, it would mean something. if I preceded every quote with a bold pipe | for each line of the quote it would be more noticeable, but of course HN doesn't provide a WYIWYG editor so you never know when a new line starts. It's just a first line visual indicator here. Consider me your quote symbol iconoclast. There's no reason for > to mean quote in a system that doesn't implement quotes. It's just a cultural construct being followed 'because thats how it was'.
- antonvs 5y ago
  > It's just a cultural construct That's the point. It doesn't have to "do anything" in software or be "implemented" to be useful - it has shared meaning in people's minds. You're reminding me of the small child who receives a non-electronic action figure for Christmas and immediately asks, "but what does it do?"
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    alternately, I just don't care what symbol is used since it's not connected to any actual function. Someone got offended that I used one symbol instead of another and when I said 'i don't really care' people jumped in to tell me how important it was to them. I still don't care.
    - antonvs 5y ago
      > alternately, I just don't care what symbol is used since it's not connected to any actual function. Put it like this: it is connected to an actual function, it's just that that function is in people's minds. As for people getting offended, I think you might be projecting. Let's look at how part of this conversation might have played out in an alternate universe: > I think it's actually a carry over from reddit, where it activates the quote, while here on hacker news it does nothing. It's just a symbol. > > It’s a carryover from long established internet (plaintext email, Usenet, etc.) convention, which is where reddit (and lots of other forums) got it, too. > > > Oh wow, I didn't know that! It's always cool to learn about the history of where things we take for granted come from. The point is, there's no need to take offense at a minor educational correction.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > There's no reason for > to mean quote in a system that doesn't implement quotes. It's just a cultural construct So is all of language. There is no reason for “cultural construct” to mean cultural construct, its just a cultural construct. But shared cultural constructs are what enables communication.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> So I guess it's just not that important to me, overall, to use a convention that few people have ever used. Lots of people have used it, because lots of places have copied it from where it originated. At any rate, HN is mostly-plain-text environment that is more similar than most newer places that have adopted the convention to the context in which it originates, so in addition to its relevance to past experience, it makes sense on its own here. > So I guess it's just not that important to me, overall, to use a convention that few people have ever used. Yeah, lots of HN conventions each wouldn't matter if HN had one specific relevant formatting feature for the use case the convention addresses, but it doesn't, so we have the conventions we have.