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Sure. But at the same time, false claims of human rights abuses are used all the time to attack official US enemies. Remember the Nayirah testimony? It's merel

by lucian1900 5y ago

Sure. But at the same time, false claims of human rights abuses are used all the time to attack official US enemies. Remember the Nayirah testimony? It's merely one of the most visible examples. The world isn't flat with equal power wielded by all countries. Some are exploited and others are exploiters, at gunpoint. We must be precise about claims made, lest we help the exploiter.

bhouston 5y ago
Countries denying their own human rights abuses is par for the course. Blaming anyone who brings up those human rights abuse as being an agent (witting or unwitting) of a geopolitical rival is also par for the course. The US itself has a lot of its own problems with systematic racism as well. But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actually an issue -- it is just being pushed by Russia agents who are only doing so because there is a geopolitics rivalry between US and Russia?
- lucian1900 5y ago
  Russia and China aren't comparable to the US (and allies) in terms of military power, economic coercion or control over propaganda. This false equivalence is manufactured by US and allied media to protect their interests. It's also worth looking at the actual sources. Try to find something claiming genocide in Xinjiang that doesn't end up using Adrian Zenz or a NED-funded think tank as a source. On the other hand, for the US's atrocities we have plentiful and varied sources. Some of us have even felt the exploitation and destruction directly or through our families.
  - bhouston 5y ago
    China does have a lot of influence as well, it is important not to discount it. It will continue to get stronger as well as it becomes an increasingly important market for goods and services. For example, this apology by actor John Cena this week because he appeared to contravened the official Chinese line that Taiwan is part of China: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/27/john-cenas-apology-after-taiwan-comment-feels-like-a-forced-confession-free-speech-advocate-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/27/john-cenas-apology-after-tai...
    - lucian1900 5y ago
      Or maybe John Cena cares about upsetting a large part of his audience, he apologised in decent Mandarin after all. It's unsurprising that imperialist media would twist a perfectly normal apology video into something sinister. If you talk to people both on the mainland and in Taiwan, you'll find the vast majority consider Taiwan to be a part of China. Many have family on the other side of the Taiwan strait, after all. Taiwan's local government still officially claims all of China as its territory. This is unsurprising since it's a direct descendant of the KMT, who retreated to Taiwan after losing the civil war to the PRC on the mainland. Only more recently a minority are starting to move towards the idea of Taiwan as an independent country; this minority is overrepresented in Western media.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - bhouston 5y ago
        I agree that John Cena wants to appeal to his fan base in China precisely because China is a growing market for goods and services -- as I said earlier. I didn't mean to link to that more critical article, I just picked the first one that showed up in Google search for John Cena apology.
        lucian1900 5y ago
        The very fact that the first thing you found paints Cena’s action as sinister confirms my point that the mainstream is very eager to spin any challenge to US hegemony as evil. Should that not make one question the narrative being pushed? At least go read their stated sources, like Zenz’ report. It’s full of unsupported facts and egregious (and convenient) translation mistakes. Then read up on the man himself and his motivations.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- pessimizer 5y ago
  > But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actually an issue -- it is just being pushed by Russia agents who are only doing so because there is a geopolitics rivalry between US and Russia? You seem to be arguing from a position that nothing ever actually ever happens, although everything is happening, and there are no such things as truth or falsehoods, everything is both a position being taken by someone to advance their own interests and an honest and heartfelt concern. I wish you would lower yourself to talk specifically and materially about the claims that you're supporting rather than floating in abstractions.
  - bhouston 5y ago
    > I wish you would lower yourself to talk specifically and materially about the claims that you're supporting You mean the links I put in the original comment? They are here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27324119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27324119

bhouston 5y ago

Countries denying their own human rights abuses is par for the course. Blaming anyone who brings up those human rights abuse as being an agent (witting or unwitting) of a geopolitical rival is also par for the course. The US itself has a lot of its own problems with systematic racism as well. But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actually an issue -- it is just being pushed by Russia agents who are only doing so because there is a geopolitics rivalry between US and Russia?

lucian1900 5y ago
Russia and China aren't comparable to the US (and allies) in terms of military power, economic coercion or control over propaganda. This false equivalence is manufactured by US and allied media to protect their interests. It's also worth looking at the actual sources. Try to find something claiming genocide in Xinjiang that doesn't end up using Adrian Zenz or a NED-funded think tank as a source. On the other hand, for the US's atrocities we have plentiful and varied sources. Some of us have even felt the exploitation and destruction directly or through our families.
- bhouston 5y ago
  China does have a lot of influence as well, it is important not to discount it. It will continue to get stronger as well as it becomes an increasingly important market for goods and services. For example, this apology by actor John Cena this week because he appeared to contravened the official Chinese line that Taiwan is part of China: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/27/john-cenas-apology-after-taiwan-comment-feels-like-a-forced-confession-free-speech-advocate-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/27/john-cenas-apology-after-tai...
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    Or maybe John Cena cares about upsetting a large part of his audience, he apologised in decent Mandarin after all. It's unsurprising that imperialist media would twist a perfectly normal apology video into something sinister. If you talk to people both on the mainland and in Taiwan, you'll find the vast majority consider Taiwan to be a part of China. Many have family on the other side of the Taiwan strait, after all. Taiwan's local government still officially claims all of China as its territory. This is unsurprising since it's a direct descendant of the KMT, who retreated to Taiwan after losing the civil war to the PRC on the mainland. Only more recently a minority are starting to move towards the idea of Taiwan as an independent country; this minority is overrepresented in Western media.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - bhouston 5y ago
      I agree that John Cena wants to appeal to his fan base in China precisely because China is a growing market for goods and services -- as I said earlier. I didn't mean to link to that more critical article, I just picked the first one that showed up in Google search for John Cena apology.
      - lucian1900 5y ago
        The very fact that the first thing you found paints Cena’s action as sinister confirms my point that the mainstream is very eager to spin any challenge to US hegemony as evil. Should that not make one question the narrative being pushed? At least go read their stated sources, like Zenz’ report. It’s full of unsupported facts and egregious (and convenient) translation mistakes. Then read up on the man himself and his motivations.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
pessimizer 5y ago
> But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actually an issue -- it is just being pushed by Russia agents who are only doing so because there is a geopolitics rivalry between US and Russia? You seem to be arguing from a position that nothing ever actually ever happens, although everything is happening, and there are no such things as truth or falsehoods, everything is both a position being taken by someone to advance their own interests and an honest and heartfelt concern. I wish you would lower yourself to talk specifically and materially about the claims that you're supporting rather than floating in abstractions.
- bhouston 5y ago
  > I wish you would lower yourself to talk specifically and materially about the claims that you're supporting You mean the links I put in the original comment? They are here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27324119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27324119