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And then there is the forced sterilization of indigenous women that is still happening, specially in Alberta: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sterilization-in

by fmajid 5y ago

And then there is the forced sterilization of indigenous women that is still happening, specially in Alberta: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sterilization-indigenous-1.4902303 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sterilization-indigenous-1....

bhouston 5y ago
This is brutal and similar to what some claim is happening in China now to Uyghurs. EDIT: Here are references in NYTimes, BBC, etc. for those downvoting me because I mentioned China and Uyghurs: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/19/us/politics/trump-china-xinjiang.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/19/us/politics/trump-china-x... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/china-uighur-xinjiang-kazakhstan https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/china-uighur-xi... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713 https://www.insider.com/birth-rates-plunge-china-defends-forced-sterilization-accusations-2020-9 https://www.insider.com/birth-rates-plunge-china-defends-for... https://www.newsweek.com/gynecologist-exiled-china-says-80-sterilizations-per-day-forced-uyghurs-1583678 https://www.newsweek.com/gynecologist-exiled-china-says-80-s...
- lucian1900 5y ago
  Except there is no reliable proof of the latter. Projection by the US, Canada and Australia does not constitute proof. [edit] Adrian Zenz does not constitute a reliable source. Not only has his work been shoddy, he is a far-right christian sworn to destroy China. He doesn't even speak Mandarin. Of course the US, Britain, Australia, etc. would amplify his work, since it matches their material interests. Here's a thorough piece on the topic https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bhouston 5y ago
    This type of suppression of "the other" is incredibly common around the world but it usually, but not always, stops in the current era once it is brought to everyone's attention. The point isn't to condemn the countries involved (e.g. country A is bad and always will be), but to get the suppression of the minority by the majority to stop by having others around the world speak up for the minority (e.g. country A should stop doing action B because it is wrong.) This is actually the fundamental principle of human rights groups - speak up for those oppressed when they can not effectively help themselves. It only appears to be an unchangeable condemnation if there is no chance that the oppression stops. In this case, like in many modern hard cases, there is a lot of denial doing on, both because some want the oppression to continue, and others because they identify with the country involved and believe that all those raising human rights issues are suspect.
    - lucian1900 5y ago
      Sure. But at the same time, false claims of human rights abuses are used all the time to attack official US enemies. Remember the Nayirah testimony? It's merely one of the most visible examples. The world isn't flat with equal power wielded by all countries. Some are exploited and others are exploiters, at gunpoint. We must be precise about claims made, lest we help the exploiter.
      - bhouston 5y ago
        Countries denying their own human rights abuses is par for the course. Blaming anyone who brings up those human rights abuse as being an agent (witting or unwitting) of a geopolitical rival is also par for the course. The US itself has a lot of its own problems with systematic racism as well. But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actually an issue -- it is just being pushed by Russia agents who are only doing so because there is a geopolitics rivalry between US and Russia?
        lucian1900 5y ago
        Russia and China aren't comparable to the US (and allies) in terms of military power, economic coercion or control over propaganda. This false equivalence is manufactured by US and allied media to protect their interests. It's also worth looking at the actual sources. Try to find something claiming genocide in Xinjiang that doesn't end up using Adrian Zenz or a NED-funded think tank as a source. On the other hand, for the US's atrocities we have plentiful and varied sources. Some of us have even felt the exploitation and destruction directly or through our families.
- hulitu 5y ago
  I don't know what you mean. If china is doing it ( no reliable source but ... china bad west good) everybody should do it ?
  - tsjq 5y ago
    clearly that not what they said.
- fancyfredbot 5y ago
  Why is bhouston's post being downvoted? People don't believe NYT? Or it's too political to mention this?
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    NYT also use Adrian Zenz' report and have a long history of lying to benefit US foreign interests.
  - throwcanada_ 5y ago
    I suppose it’s being downvoted because it looks like diversion tactics to draw attention away from what’s actually being discussed, especially considering their other comment making a false assessment of the linked article, as pointed out by throwaway24006. Disclosure: not related to that other throwaway account in any way. Using a throwaway because I don’t want to drag my main account into ugly topics like this.
    - bhouston 5y ago
      The downvoting happened before someone pointed out the concern with that comment. So that probably isn't the cause. That said, I have amended the specific comment that was wrong to correct it. I've never seen so many throwaways appear out of nowhere before.
      - throwcanada_ 5y ago
        > So that probably isn't the cause. It looks like diversion, at least to me, whether pointed out or not. > I've never seen so many throwaways appear out of nowhere before. I have seen it many times on radioactive topics. Some people don’t like to discuss under their extremely traceable accounts, especially if they’re close to the subject in question (resides in the country, works at the company, etc.), where it may lead to undesirable consequences. Anyway, a mod should be able to connect the throwaway to my main identity easily.
      - fmajid 5y ago
        I thought you had to have a minimum amount of karma before you can downvote, which would preclude throwaway accounts?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
plutonorm 5y ago
This is unbelievably shocking. Why is this not front page new across the world? Or at least the west? Good god, it’s unbelievable. The doctors should be instantly arrested, why haven’t they been arrested? This isn’t a law suit it’s a criminal investigation. I’ve not heard anything so absolutely disgusting about a first world country in quite some time.
- bhouston 5y ago
  More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization_in_Ca... It does appear that the most forced sterilizations, which were part of a eugenics-like program, were stopped in the 1970s based on this article. And there were lawsuits involved by those affected.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  I imagine whenever the major news outlets try to investigate, they get phone calls from people they don't want to get phone calls from.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  Canada likes to whitewash stuff like this because we have a weird superiority complex towards the US. We just treat people better, have less racism and everything is better just by the virtue of being Canadian and not American. It usually goes "Oh first Nations are getting forcefully sterilized? But what about x thing happening in the US?". Remember, Native men were literally kidnapped by the Saskatoon police department and some of them just "disappeared" and it barely made the headlines for a few days. I think that's what people here mean when they boast about living in a "consensus based society", not like those savages south that actually have gasp political opposition & aren't shy of societal debates. But what else would you expect from a country that is so deep into performative show of virtue that it fully admitted to perpetrating a literal genocide not even 2 years ago just to then proceed to not do anything about it, punish anyone or even really following up on that pretty huge allegation it made against itself? Keep in mind that a lot of the people involved in the disappearence of indigenous women (aka the genocide) are still alive. Tons of those people working for the government who by the government's own logic were directly involved in enabling or ignoring a genocide are still working for the federal gov because firing people, that's a bit too much of to ask for, right? Admitting to genocide is just the path to least conflict, so they did it to avoid a public debate (And whether you agree with it being a genocide or not, the moment the PM and the government say that it was you should at least expect them to actually do... something about it?)
refurb 5y ago
Your article references what’s happening in Saskatoon which is not in Alberta? And the claim is coerced sterilization.
- fmajid 5y ago
  The typical scenario is an indigenous woman going to the hospital to give birth, and the doctor refusing to give her the newborn until she "agrees" to ligation. It's not official government policy, just as killing people for driving while black is not official government policy in the US, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, nor that it is punished when found out.
bhouston 5y ago
According to the article the incident in question happened in 1978. It may be still happening, but this article does not make that claim. Rather it says it happened 40 years ago and there should be an investigation to its extent. EDIT: I was wrong. In addition to the specific incident discussed and the focus on the past, there is this: "New research shows the forced sterilization of Indigenous women is not just a shameful part of Canadian history. Reports from Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and the territories suggest it is still happening."
- throwaway24006 5y ago
  No, it makes the claim. 'New research shows the forced sterilization of Indigenous women is not just a shameful part of Canadian history. Reports from Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and the territories suggest it is still happening.'
  - bhouston 5y ago
    You are correct, I've amended by comment.
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    But it doesn't provide any evidence or even details related to this beyond the class action lawyers statements like "if we have 60 people in Regina then there are many more out there". I read thje entire article waiting for some form of details about numbers, dates, etc. and nothing. This is typical BS modern "reporting" and it's inexcusable when the subject is so important.
- pera 5y ago
  This case is from 2010: https://www.vice.com/en/article/9kj3vp/this-woman-says-a-hospital-in-canada-pushed-her-to-undergo-sterilization https://www.vice.com/en/article/9kj3vp/this-woman-says-a-hos... Here another one from 2017: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-november-13-2018-1.4902679/indigenous-women-kept-from-seeing-their-newborn-babies-until-agreeing-to-sterilization-says-lawyer-1.4902693 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-november...
logicchains 5y ago
On the subject of forced sterilization, the US funded forced sterilisation of Puerto Rican women up to the 1970s, sterilising over 30% of the population: https://www.panoramas.pitt.edu/health-and-society/dark-history-forced-sterilization-latina-women https://www.panoramas.pitt.edu/health-and-society/dark-histo....

by fmajid 5y ago

bhouston 5y ago

This is brutal and similar to what some claim is happening in China now to Uyghurs. EDIT: Here are references in NYTimes, BBC, etc. for those downvoting me because I mentioned China and Uyghurs: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/19/us/politics/trump-china-xinjiang.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/19/us/politics/trump-china-x... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/china-uighur-xinjiang-kazakhstan https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/china-uighur-xi... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713 https://www.insider.com/birth-rates-plunge-china-defends-forced-sterilization-accusations-2020-9 https://www.insider.com/birth-rates-plunge-china-defends-for... https://www.newsweek.com/gynecologist-exiled-china-says-80-sterilizations-per-day-forced-uyghurs-1583678 https://www.newsweek.com/gynecologist-exiled-china-says-80-s...

lucian1900 5y ago
Except there is no reliable proof of the latter. Projection by the US, Canada and Australia does not constitute proof. [edit] Adrian Zenz does not constitute a reliable source. Not only has his work been shoddy, he is a far-right christian sworn to destroy China. He doesn't even speak Mandarin. Of course the US, Britain, Australia, etc. would amplify his work, since it matches their material interests. Here's a thorough piece on the topic https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bhouston 5y ago
  This type of suppression of "the other" is incredibly common around the world but it usually, but not always, stops in the current era once it is brought to everyone's attention. The point isn't to condemn the countries involved (e.g. country A is bad and always will be), but to get the suppression of the minority by the majority to stop by having others around the world speak up for the minority (e.g. country A should stop doing action B because it is wrong.) This is actually the fundamental principle of human rights groups - speak up for those oppressed when they can not effectively help themselves. It only appears to be an unchangeable condemnation if there is no chance that the oppression stops. In this case, like in many modern hard cases, there is a lot of denial doing on, both because some want the oppression to continue, and others because they identify with the country involved and believe that all those raising human rights issues are suspect.
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    Sure. But at the same time, false claims of human rights abuses are used all the time to attack official US enemies. Remember the Nayirah testimony? It's merely one of the most visible examples. The world isn't flat with equal power wielded by all countries. Some are exploited and others are exploiters, at gunpoint. We must be precise about claims made, lest we help the exploiter.
    - bhouston 5y ago
      Countries denying their own human rights abuses is par for the course. Blaming anyone who brings up those human rights abuse as being an agent (witting or unwitting) of a geopolitical rival is also par for the course. The US itself has a lot of its own problems with systematic racism as well. But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actually an issue -- it is just being pushed by Russia agents who are only doing so because there is a geopolitics rivalry between US and Russia?
      - lucian1900 5y ago
        Russia and China aren't comparable to the US (and allies) in terms of military power, economic coercion or control over propaganda. This false equivalence is manufactured by US and allied media to protect their interests. It's also worth looking at the actual sources. Try to find something claiming genocide in Xinjiang that doesn't end up using Adrian Zenz or a NED-funded think tank as a source. On the other hand, for the US's atrocities we have plentiful and varied sources. Some of us have even felt the exploitation and destruction directly or through our families.
hulitu 5y ago
I don't know what you mean. If china is doing it ( no reliable source but ... china bad west good) everybody should do it ?
- tsjq 5y ago
  clearly that not what they said.
fancyfredbot 5y ago
Why is bhouston's post being downvoted? People don't believe NYT? Or it's too political to mention this?
- lucian1900 5y ago
  NYT also use Adrian Zenz' report and have a long history of lying to benefit US foreign interests.
- throwcanada_ 5y ago
  I suppose it’s being downvoted because it looks like diversion tactics to draw attention away from what’s actually being discussed, especially considering their other comment making a false assessment of the linked article, as pointed out by throwaway24006. Disclosure: not related to that other throwaway account in any way. Using a throwaway because I don’t want to drag my main account into ugly topics like this.
  - bhouston 5y ago
    The downvoting happened before someone pointed out the concern with that comment. So that probably isn't the cause. That said, I have amended the specific comment that was wrong to correct it. I've never seen so many throwaways appear out of nowhere before.
    - throwcanada_ 5y ago
      > So that probably isn't the cause. It looks like diversion, at least to me, whether pointed out or not. > I've never seen so many throwaways appear out of nowhere before. I have seen it many times on radioactive topics. Some people don’t like to discuss under their extremely traceable accounts, especially if they’re close to the subject in question (resides in the country, works at the company, etc.), where it may lead to undesirable consequences. Anyway, a mod should be able to connect the throwaway to my main identity easily.
    - fmajid 5y ago
      I thought you had to have a minimum amount of karma before you can downvote, which would preclude throwaway accounts?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

plutonorm 5y ago

This is unbelievably shocking. Why is this not front page new across the world? Or at least the west? Good god, it’s unbelievable. The doctors should be instantly arrested, why haven’t they been arrested? This isn’t a law suit it’s a criminal investigation. I’ve not heard anything so absolutely disgusting about a first world country in quite some time.

bhouston 5y ago
More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization_in_Ca... It does appear that the most forced sterilizations, which were part of a eugenics-like program, were stopped in the 1970s based on this article. And there were lawsuits involved by those affected.
nerdponx 5y ago
I imagine whenever the major news outlets try to investigate, they get phone calls from people they don't want to get phone calls from.
mardifoufs 5y ago
Canada likes to whitewash stuff like this because we have a weird superiority complex towards the US. We just treat people better, have less racism and everything is better just by the virtue of being Canadian and not American. It usually goes "Oh first Nations are getting forcefully sterilized? But what about x thing happening in the US?". Remember, Native men were literally kidnapped by the Saskatoon police department and some of them just "disappeared" and it barely made the headlines for a few days. I think that's what people here mean when they boast about living in a "consensus based society", not like those savages south that actually have gasp political opposition & aren't shy of societal debates. But what else would you expect from a country that is so deep into performative show of virtue that it fully admitted to perpetrating a literal genocide not even 2 years ago just to then proceed to not do anything about it, punish anyone or even really following up on that pretty huge allegation it made against itself? Keep in mind that a lot of the people involved in the disappearence of indigenous women (aka the genocide) are still alive. Tons of those people working for the government who by the government's own logic were directly involved in enabling or ignoring a genocide are still working for the federal gov because firing people, that's a bit too much of to ask for, right? Admitting to genocide is just the path to least conflict, so they did it to avoid a public debate (And whether you agree with it being a genocide or not, the moment the PM and the government say that it was you should at least expect them to actually do... something about it?)

refurb 5y ago

Your article references what’s happening in Saskatoon which is not in Alberta? And the claim is coerced sterilization.

fmajid 5y ago
The typical scenario is an indigenous woman going to the hospital to give birth, and the doctor refusing to give her the newborn until she "agrees" to ligation. It's not official government policy, just as killing people for driving while black is not official government policy in the US, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, nor that it is punished when found out.

bhouston 5y ago

According to the article the incident in question happened in 1978. It may be still happening, but this article does not make that claim. Rather it says it happened 40 years ago and there should be an investigation to its extent. EDIT: I was wrong. In addition to the specific incident discussed and the focus on the past, there is this: "New research shows the forced sterilization of Indigenous women is not just a shameful part of Canadian history. Reports from Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and the territories suggest it is still happening."

throwaway24006 5y ago
No, it makes the claim. 'New research shows the forced sterilization of Indigenous women is not just a shameful part of Canadian history. Reports from Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and the territories suggest it is still happening.'
- bhouston 5y ago
  You are correct, I've amended by comment.
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  But it doesn't provide any evidence or even details related to this beyond the class action lawyers statements like "if we have 60 people in Regina then there are many more out there". I read thje entire article waiting for some form of details about numbers, dates, etc. and nothing. This is typical BS modern "reporting" and it's inexcusable when the subject is so important.
pera 5y ago
This case is from 2010: https://www.vice.com/en/article/9kj3vp/this-woman-says-a-hospital-in-canada-pushed-her-to-undergo-sterilization https://www.vice.com/en/article/9kj3vp/this-woman-says-a-hos... Here another one from 2017: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-november-13-2018-1.4902679/indigenous-women-kept-from-seeing-their-newborn-babies-until-agreeing-to-sterilization-says-lawyer-1.4902693 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-november...

logicchains 5y ago

On the subject of forced sterilization, the US funded forced sterilisation of Puerto Rican women up to the 1970s, sterilising over 30% of the population: https://www.panoramas.pitt.edu/health-and-society/dark-history-forced-sterilization-latina-women https://www.panoramas.pitt.edu/health-and-society/dark-histo....