3 ms·

garam and garum do seem similar, but how latin word for something lost in medieval times could've come to indonesian language?

farrelmahaztra 5y ago
I'd imagine through trade, much like how it seems to be the explanation for why most languages call "tea" some variation of te, cha, or chai.
- teleforce 5y ago
  Yes most probably through trade. Check the provided video link on the ancient Pompeii, based on the archeological evidences they had trading activities with other Asian countries including India. It is already known that the Chams already settled in Vietnam during Pompeii time. Their ports popularity at the time probably similar to Singapore today and Singapore is currently the busiest port in the world. Another fun fact is that the Chams ancient capital city is called Simhapura or Lion City, and Singapore original name is Singapura. My gut feeling is that Champa was either playing the role of Singapore today or conquered Singapore, at the time of Pompeii.
bradrn 5y ago
There’s at least one loanword which arrived in Latin from a Trans–New Guinea language [0]. Latin→Indonesian doesn’t sound at all implausible to me, though equally it may be just coincidence. [0] https://www.academia.edu/25619010/Things_your_classics_master_never_told_you_a_borrowing_from_Trans_New_Guinea_languages_into_Latin https://www.academia.edu/25619010/Things_your_classics_maste...
- ithkuil 5y ago
  Latin is quite a strange language. It never really died, or it did die but with a slow and uneven death. The example you being is emblematic: as the international language of scholars in Europe, when the new word "Musa" gets adopted in the 18th century from the arabic "mauz", on one hand sure, it's technically Latin and thus yes technically there is a Latin word whose etymology traces back to an Austronesian root. I'm the other hand though it clearly doesn't mean that this happened during ancient Roman times, which is the conclusion one would easily jump to under the assumption that Latin really died long long ago. Lingua latina mortua est, vivat lingua latina!
  - bradrn 5y ago
    I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere that it was borrowed into Latin in ancient times, though perhaps I was wrong. Still, a TNG→Arabic borrowing is nearly as good as a TNG→Latin one.
    - ithkuil 5y ago
      Are we talking about the name of a fruit that comes from the same place where the name was borrowed from? If so, why is that surprising?
      - bradrn 5y ago
        Yes, we are. The only surprising thing about this is that one wouldn’t prima facie expect a loan into any European language from a New Guinean language before the Age of Exploration, and this particular word went through more intermediate languages than usual. Other than those features, there’s nothing particularly unusual about this.

farrelmahaztra 5y ago

I'd imagine through trade, much like how it seems to be the explanation for why most languages call "tea" some variation of te, cha, or chai.

teleforce 5y ago
Yes most probably through trade. Check the provided video link on the ancient Pompeii, based on the archeological evidences they had trading activities with other Asian countries including India. It is already known that the Chams already settled in Vietnam during Pompeii time. Their ports popularity at the time probably similar to Singapore today and Singapore is currently the busiest port in the world. Another fun fact is that the Chams ancient capital city is called Simhapura or Lion City, and Singapore original name is Singapura. My gut feeling is that Champa was either playing the role of Singapore today or conquered Singapore, at the time of Pompeii.

bradrn 5y ago

There’s at least one loanword which arrived in Latin from a Trans–New Guinea language [0]. Latin→Indonesian doesn’t sound at all implausible to me, though equally it may be just coincidence. [0] https://www.academia.edu/25619010/Things_your_classics_master_never_told_you_a_borrowing_from_Trans_New_Guinea_languages_into_Latin https://www.academia.edu/25619010/Things_your_classics_maste...

ithkuil 5y ago
Latin is quite a strange language. It never really died, or it did die but with a slow and uneven death. The example you being is emblematic: as the international language of scholars in Europe, when the new word "Musa" gets adopted in the 18th century from the arabic "mauz", on one hand sure, it's technically Latin and thus yes technically there is a Latin word whose etymology traces back to an Austronesian root. I'm the other hand though it clearly doesn't mean that this happened during ancient Roman times, which is the conclusion one would easily jump to under the assumption that Latin really died long long ago. Lingua latina mortua est, vivat lingua latina!
- bradrn 5y ago
  I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere that it was borrowed into Latin in ancient times, though perhaps I was wrong. Still, a TNG→Arabic borrowing is nearly as good as a TNG→Latin one.
  - ithkuil 5y ago
    Are we talking about the name of a fruit that comes from the same place where the name was borrowed from? If so, why is that surprising?
    - bradrn 5y ago
      Yes, we are. The only surprising thing about this is that one wouldn’t prima facie expect a loan into any European language from a New Guinean language before the Age of Exploration, and this particular word went through more intermediate languages than usual. Other than those features, there’s nothing particularly unusual about this.