4 ms·

This is an unreasonable standard to apply to any cause of death. Take cocaine overdose, causing a heart attack. Might have had a heart murmur, asthma, obesity,

This is an unreasonable standard to apply to any cause of death. Take cocaine overdose, causing a heart attack. Might have had a heart murmur, asthma, obesity, and it's always possible that without those conditions the patient would have survived. Cause of death was still a cocaine overdose. There's a separate question, which shouldn't be conflated, whether hospitals were over-reporting COVID deaths because of financial incentives. It's possible there was some of that, but while you can move numbers around a bit, you can't hide death itself, and the US had substantially more deaths last year than would have been expected had the pandemic not come along. Worth noting that by that standard, overwork doesn't cause death in any case. People die of strokes, heart attack, disease, but they don't die of overwork: or smoking, for that matter. The study of what contributes to mortality has little to do with the study of what causes it, is what I'm saying. COVID is assuredly a case of the latter.

gregmac 5y ago
What is the financial incentive for reporting a COVID death vs something else? Why does such incentive exist? (I am assuming this is a US thing)
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  "Two weeks to flatten the curve" was due to fears that hospitals were going to be swamped with thousands of covid patients. Not only would there be the issue of not enough beds, ventilators, and trained medical personnel, the hospitals would quickly run out of funds to operate. The government wanted to keep this from happening so they created a fund that would pay hospitals money quickly for each covid patient they treated. This was to avoid the time consuming process of dealing with insurance claims and the uninsured. It unintentionally created a perverse incentive for hospitals to claim as many deaths as possible as covid deaths. That doesn't mean that all or even most hospitals are doing this, at least not intentionally but everyone working in the hospital is aware that it needs financial stability. Even if they're not intentionally sticking their thumbs on the scale to attribute deaths to covid that shouldn't be, there's going to be a bias for it. As for the amounts, you can probably find those with a web search but be aware that there's lots of bad information out there so be careful about the source you check.
chiefalchemist 5y ago
Unreasonable? Why? The Covid hyperbole has beaten up the data (read: facts) beyond recognition. That is far from reasonable. - Why was the fact that Covid disproportionately affected those 65 & over brushed aside? "Adults 65 and older account for 16% of the US population but 80% of COVID-19 deaths in the US, somewhat higher than their share of deaths from all causes (75%) over the same period." https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-share-of-people-who-have-died-of-covid-19-are-65-and-older-and-how-does-it-vary-by-state/ https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-sh... Note: Covid rates and deaths are falling off because people 65 & over have gotten the jab. Not necessarily because other less vulnerable groups have; including children. - Why was the fact that comorbidies - a medical science standard - suddenly abandoned? https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-94percent-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions/ar-BB18wrA7 https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-94percent-of-co... - Why was Covid's disproportionate affect on communities of color brushed aside? https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-health/202005/covid-19-is-bad-all-devastating-the-poor https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-health... - Why was the response to Covid and its contribution to an increase in poverty brushed aside? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/8-million-americans-slipped-poverty-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-new-study-n1243762 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/8-million-americans-sli... https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/10/21/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-global-extreme-poverty/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/10/21... ---- Hiding behind aggregation and hyperbol in order to scare Karen is a dangerous tactic; a spin far too many people accepted with out question. The problem with fear is its limits the field of vision - literally, as well as to facts beyond the narrative. Yes. Covid exists. That said, in terms of the response and data transparency there has been a significant amount of unreasonable manipulation. Please don't confuse how "popular" a fact is with its legitimacy. Just the same, the popularity of propaganda doesn't increase its legitimacy.

gregmac 5y ago

What is the financial incentive for reporting a COVID death vs something else? Why does such incentive exist? (I am assuming this is a US thing)

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
"Two weeks to flatten the curve" was due to fears that hospitals were going to be swamped with thousands of covid patients. Not only would there be the issue of not enough beds, ventilators, and trained medical personnel, the hospitals would quickly run out of funds to operate. The government wanted to keep this from happening so they created a fund that would pay hospitals money quickly for each covid patient they treated. This was to avoid the time consuming process of dealing with insurance claims and the uninsured. It unintentionally created a perverse incentive for hospitals to claim as many deaths as possible as covid deaths. That doesn't mean that all or even most hospitals are doing this, at least not intentionally but everyone working in the hospital is aware that it needs financial stability. Even if they're not intentionally sticking their thumbs on the scale to attribute deaths to covid that shouldn't be, there's going to be a bias for it. As for the amounts, you can probably find those with a web search but be aware that there's lots of bad information out there so be careful about the source you check.

chiefalchemist 5y ago

Unreasonable? Why? The Covid hyperbole has beaten up the data (read: facts) beyond recognition. That is far from reasonable. - Why was the fact that Covid disproportionately affected those 65 & over brushed aside? "Adults 65 and older account for 16% of the US population but 80% of COVID-19 deaths in the US, somewhat higher than their share of deaths from all causes (75%) over the same period." https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-share-of-people-who-have-died-of-covid-19-are-65-and-older-and-how-does-it-vary-by-state/ https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-sh... Note: Covid rates and deaths are falling off because people 65 & over have gotten the jab. Not necessarily because other less vulnerable groups have; including children. - Why was the fact that comorbidies - a medical science standard - suddenly abandoned? https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-94percent-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions/ar-BB18wrA7 https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-94percent-of-co... - Why was Covid's disproportionate affect on communities of color brushed aside? https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-health/202005/covid-19-is-bad-all-devastating-the-poor https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-health... - Why was the response to Covid and its contribution to an increase in poverty brushed aside? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/8-million-americans-slipped-poverty-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-new-study-n1243762 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/8-million-americans-sli... https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/10/21/the-impact-of-covid-19-on-global-extreme-poverty/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/10/21... ---- Hiding behind aggregation and hyperbol in order to scare Karen is a dangerous tactic; a spin far too many people accepted with out question. The problem with fear is its limits the field of vision - literally, as well as to facts beyond the narrative. Yes. Covid exists. That said, in terms of the response and data transparency there has been a significant amount of unreasonable manipulation. Please don't confuse how "popular" a fact is with its legitimacy. Just the same, the popularity of propaganda doesn't increase its legitimacy.