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Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in Lond

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty fed up with all of it. Then, one day, a surgeon comes in, says hello and asks me 'how are you?'. And I reply: 'really bad!'. And suddenly surgeon's face changes: his eyes start moving faster,he looks at me and then observes the room,then at me again. Then the surgeon,in a slightly panicky voice ask me again: well what's wrong,is it the food? Is it the nurses? Did they do all the tests? What's going on?' Then the Russian looks at the doctor and says: well look, I'm in a hospital, I'm ill as hell, I'm in pain and you have the audacity to ask how am I? Are you crazy? It should be pretty clear that it's definitely not my day! The surgeon goes on to explain the subtleties of the question and etc. At that point I already lived in the UK long enough to understand the doctor's position but I also found the Russians point to be absolutely hilarious. From personal experience I find the Russians absolutely hilarious even without much smiling (the young ones smile more).They are somehow similar to Italians,who are also hilarious, but as is the case with the Russians, the funniest things tend to be equally tragic too. Kind of a never ending tragicomedy on full blast.

deleted 5y ago
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3pt14159 5y ago
Russians are so extreme. Even though my favourite professors at Waterloo in Canada were Russian, it wasn't until I learned some basic Russian that I finally got over the typical view of them drilled into people by Hollywood. Your run of the mill Russian is honest about their feelings. Not honest about the facts, no, they can cheat on an insurance filing just fine. But that coldness that so many of them seem to have is often just an outer shell. Once one of them trusts you and gets to know you they're so warm and intense about their love for you. So excited to show you something dear to them. Even devoted enough to learn a new language just to speak to you, even if they're a senior[0]. It doesn't mean the relationship always survives, because that intensity is still there when they're angry, but the highs are so high. I do not regret learning basic Russian. [0] This happened to me. Twice.
- mycologos 5y ago
  A few years ago Masha Gessen did an episode of Conversations With Tyler, a podcast hosted by Tyler Cowen, and at one point she said this about Russian friendships [1]: > ... I think that — and this may answer your question — Russian friendships are much more emotional and intense than American friendships [...] When I moved back to [the USA] five and a half years ago, it was like this sense of whiplash because I had a lot of friends here, but I had been absent for 20 years. I would get together with my friends, and then two hours later, our get-together would be over. I’m like, “Well, what was the point of that? Was that just to let each other know that we still exist?” Because you don’t really get into deep conversation until about four hours in and a number of bottles of alcohol [...] I think that maybe that’s what you’re referring to. Maybe you’re just referring to the emotional intensity of Russian friendship, where it’s hard. It’s like lovers, even in this country, don’t really drift apart usually. You have to break up. You can’t just stop calling, and go from talking every day to talking every few weeks, and then forget about each other’s existence. I usually take claims about what people from a country are like with a big grain of salt, but it's interesting to see this in your comment, too. Maybe I should pursue some Russian friendships. [1] https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/masha-gessen/ https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/masha-gessen/
  - 3pt14159 5y ago
    That is a great quote, though I have a minor quibble about alcohol being necessary as some of the Russians I befriended were former alcoholics and sober for years. Though others drank beer at dawn. I found I made deep friendships more easily after speaking even a bit of Russian. If you can say "My name is X" and "awesome" and a couple other small phrases it helps. That said, it wasn't until I had put in around 1000 hours of practice until things really opened up. It's such a hard language and I'm below average in my ability to learn human languages. But I did make steady progress with Verbling and I even met up with my tutor when I was in Ukraine. One of the things that learning Russian clears up is why they sound so angry to English ears. The language doesn't use tone for emphasis as much as English. It uses word order because the grammar is more flexible so they're able to put the important stuff at the end. Plus the sounds are more constant based. So once your ears get used to the language, you don't really hear Russian (or a Russian accented English) the same anymore. It sounds more human. Plus you learn so many words, you end up finding some of the endearing / superior to the English translation.
treeman79 5y ago
Have been in a doctors office with near suicidal levels of pain a few times. Past a certain point Humor doesn’t go over well. Particularly if you have been trying and failing to get help. That said, doctors see a lot of misery, so anything to lighten the mood should be encouraged.
- ganzuul 5y ago
  Had to explain to a doc once that when you've been in extreme pain for long enough your mind starts to regress to survival circuits. This was apparently not obvious. Doctors are fallible.
  - treeman79 5y ago
    It’s hard to judge pain. Some people go to the hysterical quickly. Others walk in with an arrow in the head, calm. Even with my own kids. It can initially be difficult to judge how serious an injury a fall of bump is. 99% of time I’m right, but the missed stick with you and the kid.
geocrasher 5y ago
When my wife was dying (she has since passed away) and nobody could figure out her illness, she'd be in the most wretched pain, in the ER again, and she'd be retching awfully and almost uncontrollably. A doctor would walk in, having heard of all this already and ask "How are you?" Sometimes she gave them the benefit of the doubt, and sometimes she was a bit less charitable. My point? Americans (as she was), Russians, Ukrainians, Latvians, Japanese, Kurdish, Bolivians, Icelandians, Koreans, Germans, Chinese, Scottish, Irish, Australians, Austrians, Swiss, South Africans, Egyptians, Mixolydians, Bohemians, and even Canadians all agree one one thing: Being asked "How are you?" is the LAST thing somebody wants to hear when they are suffering.
- You_All_R_Cunts 5y ago
  Lol, whats the point? Don't ask how people are?
- iJohnDoe 5y ago
  I’m very sorry to hear that, for both you and your wife. I hope any healthcare for your wife was eventually able to manage her pain and make her at least comfortable.
  - geocrasher 5y ago
    Thank you. For the most part she was, but it was a pretty awful thing that happened so there was only so much that could be done. But I appreciate it. The last year of her life saw her getting the best care she'd ever had. Unfortunately, it was hospice care. But it was in home, and my adult daughter and I took care of her til the end.
- sunshineforever 5y ago
  I have a difficult life and I'm growing very tired of this question. I've even had to ask some of my neighbors not to greet me that way.
  - geocrasher 5y ago
flemhans 5y ago
The typical reply in Russian to "How are you" is "normalno" (normal), which I always thought should appeal to computer geeks
- andyxor 5y ago
  "normalyok" and more informally "zayebis"
  - graton 5y ago
    So for others "zayebis" = "fucking awesome". A bit vulgar to use.
    - cosmodisk 5y ago
      Nice!I haven't used that word since the childhood,when using Russian words without property understanding them was a norm. You are right, definitely a proper situation is needed to use it.
    - utrack 5y ago
      I'd say that it's more of a "damn fine", and "fucking awesome" would be "ohuenno". Both of them are vulgar ofc
- FpUser 5y ago
  I always answer "still alive" in either language when I am asked by the people I know. When asked by random person like bank teller I would answer something weird. This would usually throw them out of their sleepy mood and suddenly they become more alive and attentive.
c-smile 5y ago
Russian here (to be precise Russian Canadian of Ukrainian descent :-) There is a saying in Russian: if a stranger, on your question "how are you?" (ru: как дела?), starts explaining in details what is happening with him/her - please know, you've met complete idiot. So I am classifying that 'how are you?' as never ending test of my life position :)
- ngcc_hk 5y ago
  A bit confused. My mental model is - Ukraine is part of Soviet Union - currently the Russian speaking Ukraine part is well ... other than that I do not associate Ukrainian as Russian. They are separately in identity ?
  - FD59A945 5y ago
    > They are separately in identity ? That is a heavily debated question, both in Russia and Ukraine. It is possible to say the "russian" culture originated in (what is today) Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus What we now call "Russia" was the expanding frontier of the original.
    - c-smile 5y ago
      The history is very complicated indeed. Rus (as statehood) originated in Novgorod (originally as a republic, btw). Then center was moved to Kiev. Then to Moscow. At those times there were no such entity (and ethnicity) as Ukraine at all. Significantly later it was Cossacks republic on part of territory of modern Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporozhian_Sich#/media/File:007_Ukrainian_Cossack_Hetmanate_and_Russian_Empire_1751.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporozhian_Sich#/media/File:0... At that time it was no Ukrainian ethnicity too. Cossacks (armed settlers) were multiethnic by definition - members were ethnically Rus, Poland, Tatar, etc. from all close and far neighbors as this was area and society of refugees. That mix eventually transformed into separate ethnicity. In Russian Empire Cossacks were playing role of armed border guard/settlers were spread across border regions of Russia: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Ukrainians_in_Russian_regions_1926.jpg/1920px-Ukrainians_in_Russian_regions_1926.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Uk... Ukraine as an ethnicity is relatively new entity. And needless to say that Ukraine as an entity with definitive borders was a communist invention, Lenin and later Stalin have drawn its borders - Russian Empire had no division on ethnical principles.
colanderman 5y ago
I suspect in "American", "how are you" is often a request for actionable information. Your Russian friend took the question as an absolute, was confused why the doctor was asking a question with an obvious answer, and proceeded to give a reply which communicated no new information to the doctor. The doctor meanwhile was expecting an answer relative to the information he had, and hence took the negative reply as a sign of a sudden ill turn of health. Similar when interacting with customer service. They don't want to know how you are, they want to know why you're talking with them, how they need to approach you. If you're calling about your cable bill and tell them you're not doing well because your aunt died, well, that's not actionable by them. They want to know how you're doing in the context of your cable bill. Even if your answer is "good, but I have a billing issue", it usefully sets the tone for the conversation in a way that "bad, Aunt Gerda passed away" does not.
- justusthane 5y ago
  > “good, but I have a billing issue" I think this gets exactly to it, but I don’t agree with the rest of your comment. In both the provided examples, the fact that there's a request for actionable information is already implicitly understood based on the situation. When a doctor comes into your room, you already know they're checking on your condition. The "How are you?" is just general greeting (to which, in casual situations, the proper response is "Fine, and you?"). And this is the crux of the misunderstanding. The Russian takes it as a request for information when it isn't. *Edit*: A YouTube video pulled from another comment in this thread that explains what I was trying to say much better: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eGnH0KAXhCw&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eGnH0KAXhCw&feature=youtu.be
  - readflaggedcomm 5y ago
    It is a request for new information, in the specific case of a doctor seeing an admitted patient. Which makes his nervous response more inappropriate.
  - jcrites 5y ago
    I think the doctor was asking, relative to the situation that you're in, how are you? In other words, given that you're in this shitty situation, do you feel worse or better than you expect? If he's still in a lot of pain then the doctor would expect the patient to say that. "The nurses are treating me well, the food is fine, but I'm still in a lot of pain. Is there anything you can do about that?" The doctor was asking a question relative to the situation and the Russian interpreted as an absolute question.
ganomi 5y ago
I once had a similar situation with the question "Is everything OK?", which is slightly different from "How are you?". I am a German living in Germany and i once caused a car crash that made another car spin into the ditch on the side of the road. That car was driven by a family of Russian heritage. After getting out of the car i spoke to the other parties wife first and I asked "Is everything OK?" with what i ment: "Is there something very wrong beyond the things that are obviously wrong. Like, is your child bleeding to death or is it only the car damage." But the woman did not understand it this way at all and was a little bit furious because to her obviously nothing was OK. Of course she had every reason to be upset, but the likelihood of a German interpreting my question in a rude way would have been way lower.
- jablan 5y ago
  As a Balkanian living in Germany I can confirm, it is quite hard for us to get used to a German level of stoicism.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

3pt14159 5y ago

Russians are so extreme. Even though my favourite professors at Waterloo in Canada were Russian, it wasn't until I learned some basic Russian that I finally got over the typical view of them drilled into people by Hollywood. Your run of the mill Russian is honest about their feelings. Not honest about the facts, no, they can cheat on an insurance filing just fine. But that coldness that so many of them seem to have is often just an outer shell. Once one of them trusts you and gets to know you they're so warm and intense about their love for you. So excited to show you something dear to them. Even devoted enough to learn a new language just to speak to you, even if they're a senior[0]. It doesn't mean the relationship always survives, because that intensity is still there when they're angry, but the highs are so high. I do not regret learning basic Russian. [0] This happened to me. Twice.

mycologos 5y ago
A few years ago Masha Gessen did an episode of Conversations With Tyler, a podcast hosted by Tyler Cowen, and at one point she said this about Russian friendships [1]: > ... I think that — and this may answer your question — Russian friendships are much more emotional and intense than American friendships [...] When I moved back to [the USA] five and a half years ago, it was like this sense of whiplash because I had a lot of friends here, but I had been absent for 20 years. I would get together with my friends, and then two hours later, our get-together would be over. I’m like, “Well, what was the point of that? Was that just to let each other know that we still exist?” Because you don’t really get into deep conversation until about four hours in and a number of bottles of alcohol [...] I think that maybe that’s what you’re referring to. Maybe you’re just referring to the emotional intensity of Russian friendship, where it’s hard. It’s like lovers, even in this country, don’t really drift apart usually. You have to break up. You can’t just stop calling, and go from talking every day to talking every few weeks, and then forget about each other’s existence. I usually take claims about what people from a country are like with a big grain of salt, but it's interesting to see this in your comment, too. Maybe I should pursue some Russian friendships. [1] https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/masha-gessen/ https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/masha-gessen/
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  That is a great quote, though I have a minor quibble about alcohol being necessary as some of the Russians I befriended were former alcoholics and sober for years. Though others drank beer at dawn. I found I made deep friendships more easily after speaking even a bit of Russian. If you can say "My name is X" and "awesome" and a couple other small phrases it helps. That said, it wasn't until I had put in around 1000 hours of practice until things really opened up. It's such a hard language and I'm below average in my ability to learn human languages. But I did make steady progress with Verbling and I even met up with my tutor when I was in Ukraine. One of the things that learning Russian clears up is why they sound so angry to English ears. The language doesn't use tone for emphasis as much as English. It uses word order because the grammar is more flexible so they're able to put the important stuff at the end. Plus the sounds are more constant based. So once your ears get used to the language, you don't really hear Russian (or a Russian accented English) the same anymore. It sounds more human. Plus you learn so many words, you end up finding some of the endearing / superior to the English translation.

treeman79 5y ago

Have been in a doctors office with near suicidal levels of pain a few times. Past a certain point Humor doesn’t go over well. Particularly if you have been trying and failing to get help. That said, doctors see a lot of misery, so anything to lighten the mood should be encouraged.

ganzuul 5y ago
Had to explain to a doc once that when you've been in extreme pain for long enough your mind starts to regress to survival circuits. This was apparently not obvious. Doctors are fallible.
- treeman79 5y ago
  It’s hard to judge pain. Some people go to the hysterical quickly. Others walk in with an arrow in the head, calm. Even with my own kids. It can initially be difficult to judge how serious an injury a fall of bump is. 99% of time I’m right, but the missed stick with you and the kid.

geocrasher 5y ago

When my wife was dying (she has since passed away) and nobody could figure out her illness, she'd be in the most wretched pain, in the ER again, and she'd be retching awfully and almost uncontrollably. A doctor would walk in, having heard of all this already and ask "How are you?" Sometimes she gave them the benefit of the doubt, and sometimes she was a bit less charitable. My point? Americans (as she was), Russians, Ukrainians, Latvians, Japanese, Kurdish, Bolivians, Icelandians, Koreans, Germans, Chinese, Scottish, Irish, Australians, Austrians, Swiss, South Africans, Egyptians, Mixolydians, Bohemians, and even Canadians all agree one one thing: Being asked "How are you?" is the LAST thing somebody wants to hear when they are suffering.

You_All_R_Cunts 5y ago
Lol, whats the point? Don't ask how people are?
iJohnDoe 5y ago
I’m very sorry to hear that, for both you and your wife. I hope any healthcare for your wife was eventually able to manage her pain and make her at least comfortable.
- geocrasher 5y ago
  Thank you. For the most part she was, but it was a pretty awful thing that happened so there was only so much that could be done. But I appreciate it. The last year of her life saw her getting the best care she'd ever had. Unfortunately, it was hospice care. But it was in home, and my adult daughter and I took care of her til the end.
sunshineforever 5y ago
I have a difficult life and I'm growing very tired of this question. I've even had to ask some of my neighbors not to greet me that way.
- geocrasher 5y ago

flemhans 5y ago

The typical reply in Russian to "How are you" is "normalno" (normal), which I always thought should appeal to computer geeks

andyxor 5y ago
"normalyok" and more informally "zayebis"
- graton 5y ago
  So for others "zayebis" = "fucking awesome". A bit vulgar to use.
  - cosmodisk 5y ago
    Nice!I haven't used that word since the childhood,when using Russian words without property understanding them was a norm. You are right, definitely a proper situation is needed to use it.
  - utrack 5y ago
    I'd say that it's more of a "damn fine", and "fucking awesome" would be "ohuenno". Both of them are vulgar ofc
FpUser 5y ago
I always answer "still alive" in either language when I am asked by the people I know. When asked by random person like bank teller I would answer something weird. This would usually throw them out of their sleepy mood and suddenly they become more alive and attentive.

c-smile 5y ago

Russian here (to be precise Russian Canadian of Ukrainian descent :-) There is a saying in Russian: if a stranger, on your question "how are you?" (ru: как дела?), starts explaining in details what is happening with him/her - please know, you've met complete idiot. So I am classifying that 'how are you?' as never ending test of my life position :)

ngcc_hk 5y ago
A bit confused. My mental model is - Ukraine is part of Soviet Union - currently the Russian speaking Ukraine part is well ... other than that I do not associate Ukrainian as Russian. They are separately in identity ?
- FD59A945 5y ago
  > They are separately in identity ? That is a heavily debated question, both in Russia and Ukraine. It is possible to say the "russian" culture originated in (what is today) Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus What we now call "Russia" was the expanding frontier of the original.
  - c-smile 5y ago
    The history is very complicated indeed. Rus (as statehood) originated in Novgorod (originally as a republic, btw). Then center was moved to Kiev. Then to Moscow. At those times there were no such entity (and ethnicity) as Ukraine at all. Significantly later it was Cossacks republic on part of territory of modern Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporozhian_Sich#/media/File:007_Ukrainian_Cossack_Hetmanate_and_Russian_Empire_1751.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporozhian_Sich#/media/File:0... At that time it was no Ukrainian ethnicity too. Cossacks (armed settlers) were multiethnic by definition - members were ethnically Rus, Poland, Tatar, etc. from all close and far neighbors as this was area and society of refugees. That mix eventually transformed into separate ethnicity. In Russian Empire Cossacks were playing role of armed border guard/settlers were spread across border regions of Russia: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Ukrainians_in_Russian_regions_1926.jpg/1920px-Ukrainians_in_Russian_regions_1926.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Uk... Ukraine as an ethnicity is relatively new entity. And needless to say that Ukraine as an entity with definitive borders was a communist invention, Lenin and later Stalin have drawn its borders - Russian Empire had no division on ethnical principles.

colanderman 5y ago

I suspect in "American", "how are you" is often a request for actionable information. Your Russian friend took the question as an absolute, was confused why the doctor was asking a question with an obvious answer, and proceeded to give a reply which communicated no new information to the doctor. The doctor meanwhile was expecting an answer relative to the information he had, and hence took the negative reply as a sign of a sudden ill turn of health. Similar when interacting with customer service. They don't want to know how you are, they want to know why you're talking with them, how they need to approach you. If you're calling about your cable bill and tell them you're not doing well because your aunt died, well, that's not actionable by them. They want to know how you're doing in the context of your cable bill. Even if your answer is "good, but I have a billing issue", it usefully sets the tone for the conversation in a way that "bad, Aunt Gerda passed away" does not.

justusthane 5y ago
> “good, but I have a billing issue" I think this gets exactly to it, but I don’t agree with the rest of your comment. In both the provided examples, the fact that there's a request for actionable information is already implicitly understood based on the situation. When a doctor comes into your room, you already know they're checking on your condition. The "How are you?" is just general greeting (to which, in casual situations, the proper response is "Fine, and you?"). And this is the crux of the misunderstanding. The Russian takes it as a request for information when it isn't. *Edit*: A YouTube video pulled from another comment in this thread that explains what I was trying to say much better: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eGnH0KAXhCw&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eGnH0KAXhCw&feature=youtu.be
- readflaggedcomm 5y ago
  It is a request for new information, in the specific case of a doctor seeing an admitted patient. Which makes his nervous response more inappropriate.
- jcrites 5y ago
  I think the doctor was asking, relative to the situation that you're in, how are you? In other words, given that you're in this shitty situation, do you feel worse or better than you expect? If he's still in a lot of pain then the doctor would expect the patient to say that. "The nurses are treating me well, the food is fine, but I'm still in a lot of pain. Is there anything you can do about that?" The doctor was asking a question relative to the situation and the Russian interpreted as an absolute question.

ganomi 5y ago

I once had a similar situation with the question "Is everything OK?", which is slightly different from "How are you?". I am a German living in Germany and i once caused a car crash that made another car spin into the ditch on the side of the road. That car was driven by a family of Russian heritage. After getting out of the car i spoke to the other parties wife first and I asked "Is everything OK?" with what i ment: "Is there something very wrong beyond the things that are obviously wrong. Like, is your child bleeding to death or is it only the car damage." But the woman did not understand it this way at all and was a little bit furious because to her obviously nothing was OK. Of course she had every reason to be upset, but the likelihood of a German interpreting my question in a rude way would have been way lower.

jablan 5y ago
As a Balkanian living in Germany I can confirm, it is quite hard for us to get used to a German level of stoicism.